Popup Prorogue
This entry was authored by Stephen Taylor at 02:51 PM | Tweet this | View Comments
blog comments powered by Disqus
@ryhicks that's alright... I wasn't sure right away either.
Stephen Taylor - email@stephentaylor.ca
Stephen Taylor is a scientist, political analyst and a blogger. Taylor writes here regularly and is the founder of bloggingtories.ca. Taylor has contributed to Macleans, CTV, talk radio and has been a featured speaker on new media at numerous events including the Western Standard Cruise and the Forum for Public Policy. In December 2008, Taylor organized Rally for Canada, a series of rallies held coast-to-coast to protest the proposed coalition government.
January 26th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Observe the familiar defensive habits of the specie conservativae defensor when cornered in its natural habitat. To defend itself, it will rely on basic instinctive bait and switch tactics, moving with lightning speed to distract from the topic or government at hand. The attempt will always be made to change the subject and keep it focused on its adversary, while it digs a whole to avoid any scrutiny or accountability.
I take it from this post that the internal polls are going really really bad for the Conservatives. Ignoring Canadians upset with Harper shutting down Parliament to avoid accountability didn't work. Mocking us as “elitist” backfired. Claiming it was a good thing so Conservative MPs could have enough time to enjoy the Olympics didn't go over too well. Claiming it was needed for “re-calibrating” was laughed at by your own supporters. Claiming new cabinet ministers needed the time just made them look incompetent. Blaming the media only brought ridicule.
So what's left? The old standby: the Liberals did it too! the Liberals did it too! the Liberals did it too! The standard Conservative response to every Conservative failing and broken promise and abandoned principle.
All that is left is to start talking about Adscam and the NEP.
What you don't get or are deliberately trying to pretend is not the issue is that it is not just prorogation that is the issue here.
It is prorogation in the face of serious accountability questions and plummetting polls.
It is the length of prorogation and shutting down committees.
It is a pattern of systematically shutting any Parliamentary committee that asks tough accountability questions, like he did with Justice, Environment, Ethics all before he shut down the special committee on Afghanistan.
It is frustrating the work of independent oversight and accountability commissions, like the Information Commission and the Military Police Complaints Commission, ignoring their orders requiring the production of documents and information, fighting them tooth and nail to prevent witnessess coming forward, fighting them in court.
It is about Harper punishing the independent civil servants in charge of accountability for crossing him: firing the MPCC chair, firing the Information Commissioner, firing the head of AECL, slashing the budget of the Budget Office and not providing him with required information.
It is being in contempt of Parliament by ignoring a Parliamentary subpoena.
It is not just about an 83 day Harper Holiday so Conservative MPs can enjoy a longer stay in California or head off to pricey tickets at the Olympics, but a core governance issue of accountability and democracy. That's why almost 30,000 Canadians from over 50 cities went out to protest on a cold January day, why Harper has lost a 15% advantage in a month, why 220,000 Canadians signed up on a Facebook page (many many of whom had never joined a political group of any kind before).
January 26th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Stephen, out media should be asking Ignatieff, you those hard questions: If Ignatieff is so concerned about democracy, why are the Liberals the worst in House of Commons vote attendance (missed/absence for 21 votes per MP)? Did the Liberal MPs hold townhalls in their own ridings (since the beginning of December) ?
http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/member-stats.php?s=1...
January 26th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Mr. TedBetts,
The only poll that will matter is the one that happens 36 days after the Throne Speech, unless of course one of our leaders in opposition capitulates again (as per tradition).
January 26th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
That's the standard reply. 'You Canadian sheeple don't need accountability or democratic government in between elections. King Steve can do whatever he wants until there is an election.'
Unfortunately, for you and Harper and Jason Kenney and all the Conservatives who think democracy gets in the way of work and cause instability, that is not how Canadian democracy works.
Accountability is not something that happens only on election day.
January 26th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Thank you for finally recognising my half sheep half person heritage. It's been a long and hard struggle to be taken seriously, especially because most people use Sheeple as a clever (it's not) pejorative, rather than as the proper moniker for a proud Sheeple.
On topic though…
An election is the ultimate test of accountability. The CPC is literally laying it (it being Domestic and Foreign Policy) out on the line for the House. Accountability happens between elections as well. WE see that happen during by elections and cabinet shuffles (not to mention various LPC criminal charges). What you are comically (or perhaps tragically?) missing is that Kinney and Harper believe that THE DEADLOCKED PARTISAN AND UNDEMOCRATIC SENATE are holding up the passage of bills that could be more easily passed (Democracy!) with a new legislative agenda.
The cynic in me thinks that parliament was shut down because of the Afghan thing… but then I remember my inner cynic is a total idiot.
January 26th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Thank you !once again blogs doin' the work of the MIA Media.
Cheers Bubba
January 26th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Your inner cynic is smarter than you think.
It's your outer cynic you should beware of. Harper threw out over half his legislative agenda, he cared so much about it. Which means about 40% went through the senate no problem. Of the rest, almost all of it was in the House.
This lie about the Senate holding up and blocking bills has to end.
The other day the Prime Minister claimed the Senate held up or was blocking his Truth in Sentencing legislation. Complete. And. Utter. Baldfaced. LIE. This is what makes me soooo mad about this PM. As was quickly pointed out but not repeated in the media, that particular piece of legislation moved through the Senate at record speed and faster than the House.
A study in late 2008 demonstrated that the Senate has passed Harper bills at the same pace and frequency under Harper as under Chretien with two big exceptions: (1) the Senate amended more bills under Chretien and (2) they did not pass the senate reform bills because they are unconstitutional, or at least have serious constitutional questions raised by Liberal senators, provinces and constitutional scholars and yet Harper wouldn't allow a full debate on the subject.
I think the senate should be elected, frankly. But I'm not sure Harper really does. He hasn't done much at all to push for elected senators and never once met with the provinces to discuss it.
But he is making it worse of course and as usual. If you thought the senate was undemocratic before, shortly it will be even moreso since the Conservatives will undemocratically hold a majority even though it's been almost 20 years since they won a majority of seats in the Commons. But, as we know from prorogation and Parliamentary committees and independent boards/commissions/agencies, lack of democracy is not something that bothers Harper when it is in his favour.
January 26th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
“It is not just about an 83 day Harper Holiday”
Hey Dingbat…get your fact straight. They were not even supposed to be back at work until Monday….
January 26th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Sigh…Teddy – you do know that your parties had the option to bring him down at any time over the past four years right…so quit with the King Harper doing whatever he wants.
Grow up.
January 26th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
HA HA HA TEd…undemocratic because they haven't held a majority in the house….huh..how come it is OK for the Liberals to have a majority in the Senate – they have been going downhill for four years now.
Think Ted, Think
January 26th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
That's what's got your shirt in a knot, isn't it Ted. The Conservatives will finally have some power, something that has been lacking even though they won the most number of seats.
It appears it has got your goat.
I expect your sidekick Gayle will be along soon with her twisted comments
January 26th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Um, where did I say it was OK for the Liberals, AlbertaGirl.
Seriously, you don't have to fabricate facts each and every single time you respond to a post of mine. You should stop stalking me, join your Conservative MPs in California or whereever they are vacationing on their Harper Holiday, and come back after you've had a breath of fresh reality.
January 26th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
When did Parliament break AlbertaGirl? When do they come back AlbertaGirl?
I know facts are not your strong suit, but take out a calendar and count the number of days between December 13 and March 3.
January 26th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
I would have thought that someone who pretends to know so much about our parliamentary system would be aware that parliamentary sessions, breaks, vacations, whatever you want to call them are decided by an ALL PARTY group of MPs, usually the House Leaders, on which the Tories would certainly be in a minority. So all the PM is responsible for is January 25 – March 3.
January 26th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
P.S. …… I prefer to call it the “Coalition Troika Junta” …. more accurate ….
January 26th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Fantastic Picture!
January 26th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
The NDP,Liberal, Bloc partisans who were organized and provided support from their party were NOT part of a grassroots movement.
The fact that less than 20,000 showed up nationally proves the coalition parties is losing the public relations war. Where are the crowds?
Hundreds of professional printed signs, NDP organizers pushed the last pro coalition protest and like this one has failed.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
For the first time since winning government to MP's in opposition CAN NOT hide behind the unelected Liberal Senators.
Now the opposition will have to back up their positions up or down against this government. This is why so many of them are terrified. They will be called if they continue to play games in the HOC.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
TB is an example of what is wrong with the posters over at lib blogs. They can't accept facts or the truth.
Some honest lib bloggers accept it is only a few weeks in a delay and the majority of MP's can defeat this government for delaying the return.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Are you honestly trying to claim that everyone would have agreed to 83 days off if Harper had been honest with them and told them he was going to prorogue Parliament for 63 days? Really?
January 26th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Frustrated righties can take heart that at least one pollster is saying that this is probably the bottom for the CPC, and that their numbers should start trending up again.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blo...
Sure has been fun watching them flail about on this one, though.
In the above-linked article, Ipsos-Reid president Darrell Bricker seems to agree with some of us us about the public reaction:
[Mr Bricker] says, too, that the “key to the prorogation issue is that it isn’t about prorogation.”
“It’s about the PM playing politics,” he says.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
OK, so if we are losing the public relations war, then how do you explain Harper's 15% drop and Ignatieff's 4-5% gain, CS? I'm curious about this. How does your preztle mind make sense of that?
January 26th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Gee Ted, I didn't realize that Stephen had put a moratorium on who could reply to your inane comments.
And as for holidays…that's kind of rich considering Iggy was in France and Jack was in Belize while Stephen Harper was ACTUALLY working.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Ted, you're just talking garbage here. Parliament is prorogued from January 25 – March 3, and anything else is just Liberal spin.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Clearly you can't comprehend simple math or counting sitting day and now you want me to explain how the media have hid the decline and did the Michael Mann thingy? Really
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2010/01/msm-a...
I don't think you will get it even with the pictures. Goodluck.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Jad, I'm sorry if facts don't line up with PMO talking points, but Parliament was prorogued the moment prorogation was proclaimed by the Governor General on December 30, 2009.
Read the Proclamation yourself, reprint here:
“A PROCLAMATION PROCLAMATION
Whereas We have thought fit, by and with the advice of Our
Prime Minister of Canada, to prorogue the present Parliament of
Canada;
And whereas the adjournment of the Senate and the House of
Commons renders impossible the announcement to both Houses;
Now know you that, We do for that end publish this Our Royal
Proclamation and do hereby prorogue the said Parliament to
Wednesday the third day of March, 2010.“
January 26th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Bait and switch. Bait and switch. Bait and switch… and then run.
Simple question CS. If you, unlike pretty much everyone in Canada, think the 15% lead did not disappear because of Afghan detainees or prorogation, then why do you think the Harper Conservatives have plummetted so far in such a short time? I am genuinely curious.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Is this parnel? It sounds very much like him. The fact is it drives people like you nuts that Harper is in full control of the House and soon the Senate. Iffy will have to take real positions in the House because he won't be able to depend on the Liberal Senators delaying, killing or changing legislation that the House has passed. If you think prorogation or other whining incessantly is going to win the next election for the Libs you are dreaming in technicolour. Canadians when asked have always indicated that Harper outshines all the opposition leaders and particularly Iffy on leadership issues. So keep those smug comments coming but we shall see who has the last laugh.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Don't forget that Parliament was not going to be sitting for the two weeks of the Olympics. So the total additional time prorogued is 17 days.
Ted should get a life or go back and talk to liblogs.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
What would Taylor know about democracy, fairness, duty, honour and the like? Talyor is a CPC hack hiding behind Jane Taber's dress (pants). Fair and Balanced like FOX news
January 26th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Asked and answered. I am not responsible you can't grasp the subject matter at hand. Try painting by numbers if this is concept is too difficult.
Goodluck
January 26th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Not Parnel. And I have no idea what you are talking about. Some folks put up some false information here and I've called them on it.
What is interesting to me in your response is that it is very familiar to me. It is the exact same kind of dismissive arrogance of the Martin Liberals in the fall of 2005: we've never lost so we never will and Martin has always polled way way ahead of that career politician Harper.
I really love seeing that kind of arrogance running from on high with Harper all the way down. It means you really probably do believe your own spin and can't see the world for the way it is unfolding.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
run run run run CS. Typical.
Throw out nonsense. Make up facts. At all costs, avoid answering any questions. Stay as far away from reality as possible.
Too bad there aren't more conservatives like you.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Hollinm I had a poor sport do the same thing.
———————————————–
Hes-a-rogue-pro said…
Bait and switch. Bait and switch.
————————————————
(Exact same style) Yes I think TB has multiple aliases.
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2010/01/iffys...
It is not difficult to flush him out, just mention liberals are going bankrupt and he gets really upset.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
I've met Ted Betts
January 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
I think this is Terry Quinn Parnel aka Ted B. aka 10 other aliases.
Explains why they can't pay their leadership debts, you can't fake donation to elections Canada you need a real body. We know the Liberals don't have any warm bodies interested in trying to save a dying party.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Jad – do you understand what prorogation means?
For one thing, it means the committees cannot sit and do their work. While Parliament was not to be back until Monday, the committees could have continued doing what we pay them to do.
But then, it is just that kind of thing Harper wanted to prevent when he prorogued, isn't it.
In any event, either learn what prorogation really means, or stop being disingenuous.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Actually, the total time of prorogation is between December 30, when Harper prorogued, and March 3, when he is scheduled to give his Throne Speech.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Heh.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
I see Mr. Taylor is still trying to flaunt the idea that what Harper did is nothing new.
Obviously you believe if you say it often enough it will magically become true.
Or maybe you could start giving Canadians more credit. We are too smart to believe this.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Ted
I am not running for any political party. I can accept your refuse to accept 17 sitting days are lost. I also accept that MP's are back to work (see photo opp above) so using your “special” enron accounting system to include weekends and holidays is typical. Liberals like to distort facts.
Liberals are trying to delay again their leadership debts from 2006. They are unlikely to repay the GST overpayment until they are embarrassed by the media.
In a few weeks the numbers will reinforce Janine Krieber's comments. Another ex-liberal cabinet minister has repeated the same thing.
Political Stunts Photo ops
There was one subtle difference, however. The big ornate wooden ornate doors to Commons were shut tight for the NDP photo op. Those very same doors, however, were wide open for the Liberal version. (too funny)
“There is no Liberal Party,” says one lifelong card carrier who has sat at cabinet tables.
“It died a long time ago. It's not completely extinct yet, but there's no there there.” In this lifelong Liberal's eyes, the party has been stalled for years. No new energy, no new ideas, no vision of what it might like to do. The singular advantage of proroguing, this Liberal would say, is that it has put an end to the squirming every time the opposition pounces.
“The ‘gotcha' stuff is out of control,” says the Liberal. “They bring in all these nerdy keener kids from campus and it's some kind of game to them. They're turning politics into pro wrestling.” The media concentrates on the top, Ignatieff, and on the Hill, but disenchanted Liberals say there is a story to be told far from the now-silenced sound bites of the Centre Block.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pr...
See Ted the running and hiding is not my problem. I am simply one voter, who no longer votes Liberal.
Those 700,000 who stayed home in 2008 your problem. The Nov 09 by election another problem for Liberals.
I have NO problem with Canadians voting, let see if your leaders can't keep his party afloat when the I.O.U.'s come in over the next few weeks.
Give my best to Denis Coderre his efforts in QC were spectacular.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
I'm sorry, but all of this Liberal bullshit still doesn't mean that it's right for Stephen Harper to do it. That's a childish excuse that shouldn't be taken seriously.
If the opposition parties really are wasting time over a non-issue by pressing the Afghan detainee issue, then Harper should have let them do it and made fools out of them for pressing it. Why prorogue over it? Is there something to hide? I'm sorry to Harper that the opposition party asking questions is a tiring waste of time, but that's what we do in a democratic, western society, right? He can't just shut 'em up because it's inconvenient.
It's wrong for one man to be able to halt parliament without consent of said parliament. How does all of this make him any better than the Liberals you depict above?
Sure, I'll take Harper's minority government over Ignatieff any day, but it's actions like this that make me reluctant to trust him with a majority government.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
I supported Harper because he and his conservatives were promising to bring us accountable, responsible government as a good alternative to years of Liberal corruption.
Sure, the Conservatives will finally have some power in the Senate, but at the cost of reducing themselves down to the level of their opponents, and at the cost of the accountability platform he was originally elected on. Again… how does that make the Conservatives any better than the Liberals?
Simply to avoid the detainee non-issue and control Senate business? Really? I don't think that's worth it, and he may have sacrificed a Commons majority to do it… of course we'll see how much people care by the time an election is called, but that's just wrong. He shouldn't be counting on people to simply not care about his undemocratic actions… this sort of thing leads to a dark place.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Just answer the damn question… you're obviously dodging. Okay the media cherrypicked the highest poll numbers to show the biggest drop… the point is, his numbers are still all the way down to 30%, and they still dropped after prorogation.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
And Goodayle was in Phoenix and Rae was in Nepal and Dryden was……etc etc
January 26th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Christopher nice new name btw.
This is NOT dodgeball. I have already talked about Polls and reporting of them. Clearly you have difficulty with the facts Polls move up and down.
If you would like to ignore the reality of General Elections,by elections and the normal levels of popular support for each political that is your choice.
I have already blogged about the Math in the numbers. I have NO difficulty in asking voters to send another message to the opposition parties (namely the Liberals)
Nik Nanos did a good snapshot in Sept 2009. As well.
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2009/12/689-o...
“For the many Canadians who doubt that Stephen Harper has the potential to bring about transformative change to the country's fabric, it should be required reading.” – Chantal Herbert Toronto Star November 16, 2009 The Good Bad and Ugly (on the New Citizenship Guide)
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2009/11/polit...
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2009/11/forre...
Take a look at the whole year the gap of 10-14 (one month?) was a very short aberration because Iffy threatened another election in Sudbury. Once he folded like a tent the outrage went away. The less we see and hear from the Liberals the better the numbers according to some.
The balance of the year showed a tight race in the Polls but the metrics of key demographics have changed since the 2008 general election.
The most important key metrics have gone to the CPC leaving the Liberals with >25 notoriously lowest turnout.
Campaign and elections matter and since 2000 the Liberals have bled from the 40.8% pop to the worst in over 100 years 26.3% in 2008. Nothing has changed to reverse the trend is bleeding seats to the CPC and NDP. Nov 2009 confirmed it. The finances fourth quarter will also lead to more chaos.
Janine Krieber waited over one year before posting her thoughts about the Liberal Party. She was NOT angry, just another canary in the coal mine.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
PM Harper, is NOT running from the Afghan issue. That is the garbage out there that call itself news.
The Senate had dissected major bills to be indistinguishable. These same bills had majority house support and believe it or not, the UNELECTED, UNACCOUNTABLE Senate can make Parliament more dysfunctional than QP and that is a shameful circus and the bills are not lost despite what the uninformed folks say.
This month of recalibrating is a purely reasonable approach to signalling the direction of phase 2 of the stimulus. It is not rocket science, despite the rhetoric and hypocrisy.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Ted Betts – I see that you are a Toronto lawyer specializing in mergers and aquisitions. So, how's that NDP, Liberal, BLOC coalition merger coming along? If only you can rid rid of that pesky prorogation power of the PM that screwed it up last time huh. You know, that power that Peter Donolo no doubt counselled Jean Chretien to use on the eve of that pesky Sheila Fraser report on the Sponsorship scandal. That tactic that all of the media called “brilliant politics” and the outrage of the opposition was just sour grapes because once again the Liberals had outfoxed them.
I note from all over the blogosphere that you are really working hard on your merger mission. Great lawyer baffle gab you peddle too. Good luck.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
I think you mean “unrecognizable”, and I for one would like you to give specifics on that. Though it is amusing how much you will contort yourself so you can argue Harper is right.
In any event, reviewing and amending bills is what the Senate does. It has been doing this ever since it was created. What makes Harper so special that none of his bills should be amended?
Here is what happens when a bill is amended by the Senate: it goes back to the House, where the amendments are voted on. They can be accepted or rejected. If accepted the bill passes into law. If rejected the House amends the bill again and it returns to the Senate, where it can either be rejected or amended.
Now, by the time the bill you are talking about here (and I believe there is only one, though I would be happy to be corrected should you be able to name the bills that were amended and provide links to same) returned to the Senate (assuming the amendments would be rejected by the House), Harper would have a majority in that House.
I would assume once he gets his majority he will also get the bill passed. That is, after all, why he wants a majority in the Senate.
In short, the bill would have passed without the necessity to prorogue.
I assume that is why Harper DENIED it when asked if the senate was why he prorogued.
Facts Bec. Those pesky facts. They get you every time.
PS. Maybe no one told you that Flaherty has already said there is no need to prorogue to “recalibrate”. Although maybe Harper knows his team is incompetent and they cannot possibly sit in the House and 'recalibrate” at the same time.
But lucky you – there are no end of excuses for prorogation coming from the CPC. Plenty for you to choose from.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:04 am
Gayle…DO YOU know what prorogation means….it is how a session of parliament ends to begin another. It is at the discretion of the sitting prime minister to decide when that happens.
He did it.. Get over it. Try to learn a bit about our parliamentary system before you go telling people they don't know something.
Oh – and because you always demand a link
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/procedure-book-livre/Doc...
January 27th, 2010 at 5:14 am
“I see Mr. Taylor is still trying to flaunt the idea that what Harper did is nothing new.”
Sigh…Gayle…please tell me HOW this prorogation is any different than ANY other prorogation in history…please.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:18 am
“Why prorogue over it? Is there something to hide? I'm sorry to Harper that the opposition party asking questions is a tiring waste of time, but that's what we do in a democratic, western society, right? He can't just shut 'em up because it's inconvenient”
Chris…did I hear you on Dave Rutherford the other day?
Anyway, by letting the committees continue on their vendetta with their majority would mean that they would be able to shut down any investigation into their part in the detainee issue. By waiting until the Tories have the majority means that we get the whole story.
My bet…once the Tories have the majority, the liberals will drop this issue like a hot potato – they don't want their complicity to come out.
Time will tell whether I am right.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:04 am
Gayle technically you are correct. However, you are being too cute by half as usual. You know that parliament was not coming back from the Xmas break until Jan. 25th. You also know that parliament would not sit during the Olympics. However, continue to distort the facts if it makes you feel better. Those that have a brain and can think for themselves are not going to be fooled by your distortions.
If your buddies honestly believe the PM is being undemocratic then they have an obligation to vote non confidence in the government. However, I suspect the effete leader of the Liberal party will run and hide.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:14 am
Well you have managed to totally avoid my point. Not that I am surprised. This issue has you so befuddled and confused you have no idea which way is up.
You are being disingenuous when you argue “all” it means is that Parliament does not sit.
It basically allows the government to banish the opposition. You remember the opposition right? the people who represent 60% of the population of Canada? It means Harper can operate without any accountability to voters. I know that pleases you, but it is also a direct violation of what he promised to do when he was in opposition. Again, I know that Harper lying and going back on his promises is something you are willing to forgive, but there is a reason he is dropping in the polls AG. You would do him a better service by acknowledging that rather than hiding your head in the sand.
The very fact Harper chose to prorogue December 30 was clearly done in order to ensure the committee looking into the Afghan detainee issue could no longer sit and subpoena witnesses.
So while it is cute you direct me to “get over it”, the fact is Canadians are NOT getting over it. Harper is hurting, and you know it.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:15 am
See my post below to AG. There is a huge difference between the House not sitting and the House being prorogued. The fact you guys are trying to confuse the two says a lot about how much you are worried about the way this prorogation is hurting Harper.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Really? Still? Where have you been for the past several weeks???
It is different because it was done in order to avoid being held accountable to Parliament, and therefore to the electorate. This is the second time he has prorogued for this reason.
I hope that helps.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Oh dear lord. I knew you were tying yourself into knots in order to justify Harper's actions, but this is truly the funniest excuse I have heard yet.
Way to totally make things up.
ha ha ha ha ha
PS Harper will still not have a majority on the Parliamentary committee that is looking into the detainee issue. His majority exists only in the Senate. Sadly for him, the people in this country do not trust him with a majority – clearly for good reason.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:35 am
“It basically allows the government to banish the opposition. You remember the opposition right”
What are you talking about Gayle…”banishing the opposition”…in what way.. You don't think they can come back with all the same pseudo scandals and pick up where they left off in March.
The ONLY difference will be the committees and the senate- and that is what you people are so upset about.
And please, tell me what the difference IS between the house “not sitting” and prorogation. Except that Iggy can go to france when it isn't sitting, and Jack can schedule his Belize snorkling holiday.
Did you read my link…the fact that EVERYTHING can come back to the house to be reinstated. If you people and the parties you support are SOOOOO upset, I will assume that things will pick up where they left off.
I am really getting sick of your arrogant attitude, Gayle. You and Ted are not the authorities on prorogation that you think you are, your “talking points” prove that you are listening to the Harper Haters out there whose agenda is to get the Coalition into power.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:47 am
No, you did not hear me on any Dave Rutherford.
And sure, if Harper gets a majority then he'll be able to press into Liberal complicity, but how does proroguing parliament solve that? We'll come back with the same old minority. So what, does he just want to avoid the “vendetta” inquiry until he gets said majority and can control the committee? Would you not criticize a Liberal PM for doing that? Does that not sound wrong to you?
January 27th, 2010 at 8:20 am
And this is different than Chretien proroging to avoid the Gomery report…or to shut down the Somalia inquiry…or different than Bob Rae proroging to avoid everything he did – I am quite sure that if we had the historical evidence of WHY former PM's proroged, we would find a myriad of “reasons” like you state.
And the first time he prorogued was to avoid throwing the country into a crisis due to a planned coup takeover… totally different than this time where he is ending one session (which was to start on Jan 25 ) and starting another 36 days later (a time frame BTW, which is quite normal – especially since they all voted to rise for the Olympics).
So Gayle – you and your ilk can try to spin this as the longest prorogation, or he is abusing his power, or he is shutting down parliament. The facts are Gayle – this is an over the top reaction to a Conservative PM in a minority situation because the opposition see the opportunity to make some hay by misinforming the public.
Unfortunately, the majority of our media are also on board with misinforming the public on this whole thing as well.
So Gayle…I hope THAT helps.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:18 am
I've never backed down from pointing out your silliness in my own name CS, even at your own site, so I don't know why you would suggest I am using sockpuppets just because someone else has some of the same arguments many of us do.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Can we find out the number of times Dion and the liberals walked out on votes in the House? disrespecting parliament and not standing up for their constituents??
January 27th, 2010 at 9:27 am
Hollinm:
We'll see about “my guy”. You may be right, I think you'll find you are wrong. He's a better campaigner than a Question Period-er. But will see. You may be right that he has no feel for the different regions, or have bad political instincts. Your opinions may be valid.
But the weakness or strength of Ignatieff does mean Harper is the opposition. He has shown he does not understand the country over and over. The 2008 fiscal update, prorogation, calling an election despite his own fixed election date laws (he won, but he won with fewer actual votes than in 2006 and the lowest level of support among Canadians in our history at 22%). He knows how to do politics and that is about all he knows. He knows how to beat up the opposition and avoid accountability, but he doesn't know a thing about an age 0ld concept of governance called “responsible government”.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Don't know what happened to my reply so I'll try to repeat it.
The senate reform bill was likely unconstitutional. It died on the order paper at the end of the first session and has not been brought back by Harper I don't think. I believe the Liberals tried to fast track a vote on it but the Conservatives blocked them.
The senate reform bill is a perfect example of how our government should work. This was a good idea – limits on the terms of senators – that I support but it was a bad law and likely unconstitutional. The provinces had already said they would challenge it in court. The Liberals asked Harper to refer the matter to the Supreme Court so we could know for certain. He refused. The Liberals asked for broader public consultations because of the important constitutional issues. Harper refused.
If the senate rubberstamps House bills it is abdicating its constitutional duty and mandate. Here, they did exactly what the Constitution tells them to do: they took a political optics bill and gave it some good sober second thought.
Other bills they amended, not as many as under Chretien mind you. Most they have passed. Most bills take between 6 and 9 months to become law. The other day the Prime Minister claimed the Senate held up or was blocking his Truth in Sentencing legislation. As noted: Complete. And. Utter. Baldfaced. LIE. It took this bill 4 months to become law. The senate passed it faster than the House.
I understand how you might want Harper over the alternatives, but how can you defend such a baldfaced liar and support his lies????
January 27th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Ted and a few others like you roaming the blogs – you are all so holier than thou from the sidelines. How easy it is to criticize from your lofty perch without ever gotten your own hands dirty. Have any of you ever been in elected positions where you are tasked with making decisions for the greater good while taking slings and arrows from those whose pet projects or personal ambitions were not front and centre? You think political work only happens when the tv cameras are on or it gets reported? That it is some kind of pundit's game instead of a grueling 7 day a week , 365 days per year exhausting job in service to the country and constituents. I never hear any of you talk about constituency work which is vitally important and demanding and takes up about 90% of an MP or MLA's time. That's where the real work for citizen's is done. Are you also the type who have always believed the boss is stupid, your coworkers not as smart as you and everyone else does not play nice in the sandbox. I despair for my country if people like you ever get to advise a government leader. Your egos clouds reality and common sense and your peacock strutting around the blogs to blather how smart you are by twisting facts to your own selfish reality just proves my point.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:48 am
TB,
I am glad you don't sockpuppet. The same lines and prose was repeated on my site recently. Must have been a coincidence.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:51 am
My MP is the chair of this committee, and every time they want to call witness pre 2006 they are denied the chance to testify. Wonder why. If there is an inquiry it will go back to 2002, when Cretein sent our troops without a vote in the HofC. And the troops had very little warning they were going and were unprepared via training, uniforms, equipment, and a plane to get them there. All this just because Chretein had a hate on for Pres Bush. And we remember how he said he had no use for Alberta.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Could be someone C+P my points if it was word for word.
If it was similar points, I've been posting a fair bit lately so it is not surprising if they saw my comments elsewhere. Plus, it seems from polling that millions of Canadians share my views on prorogation which kind of opens the field up a bit as to who might comment.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Sorry Chris…there was someone who made the same points you did who called in yesterday – and his name was Christopher…I was just going to point out that you made some good points on the show.
Once the Conservatives have a majority in the senate, it means they have a majority on the committees too. THAT is when things will change.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Maybe you are too smart to see the truth, the rest of us do. At least the AG is not ready to give a report re the stealing of taxpayer money, that causes Chretein to prorogue. Or, the PM doesn't have a new PM in waiting that he refuses to sit in the same house with, as per Chretein.
All this faux outrage over some terrorist being hit with a shoe. How stupid is that, when in that culture it is considered the greatest of insults to be hit with a shoe. Poor boy, he was insulted.
Did you by chance watch the Glen Beck show re Dictators and what they did to their people.
Maybe you should, and then tell us the comparison to what our PM has done. It was PET who put soldiers with guns in the streets of Quebec. It was PET who had Castro as a pallbearer, proving he was a communist at heart.
The faux outrage from liberals/ndp is laughable. Their plans to overthrow PMSH are never going to succeed. What did they have up their sleeves for Jan 25, and what did the PM know about them. He outfoxed them again with proroging the HofC. Eventually the truth will come out, probably during an election campaign. And denying the PM a majority will mean more of this faux scandal crap from the coalition. Wonder if the retirement of 14 more senators in the next couple of years has anything to do with trying to grap power.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am
EXCELLENT comment Lorraine!
January 27th, 2010 at 11:07 am
And why did Chretein prorogue to avoid a damaging report by the AG. Wouldn't that be against the will of Parliament.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:10 am
“Sadly for him, the people in this country do not trust him with a majority – clearly for good reason.”
Oh for God's Sake Gayle…that old “we didn't trust him with a majority” is a piece of crap….NO one goes into the voting booth and says…”gee, who shall I vote for, I would vote for Mr Harper's CPC, but I don't trust them with a majority, so I am going to vote for Mr. Layton's NDP.
Would you make that choice, Gayle? Didn't think so.
Please quit insulting us with that old line.
Anyway, it is obvious that you are not going to understand that this prorogation is no different than any of the other 104 that have been done in our country's history, so there is no point in further discussion with you.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:14 am
With 14 senate seat up for grab by the end of 2012, or a total of 27 by 2014, could the media be trying for one of those. Have they been promised a few. Makes you wonder. Poor Craig will be too old.
Imagine with a majority the conservatives would have control of the senate for years to come, regarless of who is in power. Sweet revenge.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Coming thru the back door is wrong. If the coalition want to be upfront with their intentions let the people vote for it. Countries that are governed by coalitions know that is what will happen. The winner of the most seats has to spend weeks and months trying to get other parties to support them, and agree on all ministers etc. Notice that in afghan all suggestions have been vetoed.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:24 am
And how do you explain the 20% drop for Iggy in Quebec.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:24 am
TB,
lol,
that was funny.
Millions and milions of the tb maniacs….(old hulk banter)
ties in with this article rather nicely
“They bring in all these nerdy keener kids from campus and it's some kind of game to them. They're turning politics into pro wrestling.” The media concentrates on the top, Ignatieff, and on the Hill, but disenchanted Liberals say there is a story to be told far from the now-silenced sound bites of the Centre Block.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:27 am
And during those elections the liberal lost 70 seats.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:27 am
Prove it Gayle.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:31 am
And count the days of the Christmas break, they were not to return till Jan 25, then break for the Olympics. Had the PM not prorogues, they would not have been in the HofC till Jan 25.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:35 am
If you accept the use of prorogue as a tool (one of many) to be used to reset parliament than the decision to delay by 17 sitting days is NOT a biggie.
If you choose to accept the fairytale from the msm led opposition about xxx-gate than we have a pattern or a problem led by a dictator.
This is not a complicated matter.
I don't believe the biased msm are reporting accurately in context the news. Too much opinon and personal views mixed in to push their own agenda.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:35 am
The calender for sitting days, breaks, holidays whatever must be presented to the Speaker by Sept 30 of said year. So, back in Sept it was decided by all leaders when the Christmas, Easter, and other breaks would happen. But, with a new session starting, perhaps the PM will suggest that the July-Sept break be canceled so all those lib/ndpers can work. Maybe he will also cancel Easter.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:36 am
I'm not talking about the Liberals. I'm talking about the majority of Canadians who are, to varying degrees, upset with Harper for shutting down Parliament. Multiple polls show Canadians are not happy with prorogation or with Harper for proroguing, and yet you and yours insist on dismissing insulting the majority. Smart smart stuff that.
For many non-partisans that I know – those who vote differently each election and always hold their nose when doing so – this was a 3M move – a Made Me Made moment.
Whether it holds, whether it Harper is able to distract with more shiny things, whether they are more dismissive of Ignatieff… we shall see. Not making any claims about that.
Just saying that right now, a majority of Canadians from across the entire country are pissed with the Harper Holiday. We don't like it and we aren't happy with the guy who granted it.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Gayle, are you suggesting that a session never ends and our great PM can go on and on forever, without another election. Think of the money we could save.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:47 am
It is only getting worse for the Liberals. Before they had companies H1N1 “shot” supplier, PR Firms (caught in Adscam) etc make big donations to the Liberal Party.
Now with the new limits and restrictions all their back room deals and influence peddaling can't be cashed in. They have to actually get donations from real people. Something they have not done before.
Sadly for the Liberal partisans they can't grasp the math behind financial contributions as a testimony to grassroots support. If we can get the subsidy dropped two more failed opposition parties will become bankrupt and be unable to spark annual elections. It should leave the CPC to fight against the NDP.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
You have lost the PR excercise. You party can't even get the photo op correct.
http://canadanewsdesk.com/polls/?p=All&t=month1...
Like H1N1 Polls at beginning and now have moved. Same with Detainee Issue. Relying on Polls for your democracy. I rely on General Elections! (nice to know you don't)
I can cite polls asking loaded questions and get a majority to think whatever I want. (This is not science, ooops AGWism is getting smacked down too)
I accept you can't understand how little has changed since 2008 for the Liberals. You actually believe Canadians are buying into the BS from our media every fake scandal….moving their voter intention. (It is funny and sad)
The Liberals were able to govern for 13 years (numerous scandals, massive cuts into healthcare, social services, education) until the right of centre reformed as an alternative, the NDP regained support. (8.5%-18.2%) (Green 0.5-6%) it is something you refuse to grasp.
The LPOC are dead another election will confirm it. Follow the money and ask why they can't find Canadians willing to donate.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
OT, but very important. Mr Iffy has been spouting that the PM has ruined Canada's reputation on the world stage. Perhaps he should reconsider his stmts. The IMF has just given Canada a vote of confidence in its handling of everything. And a while ago our Finance Minister was voted the best of
another group of countries.
And where will all that outrage of the protesters turn when their hero Iggy, fails to defeat the govt.
His excuse canadians don't want an election is mute, and regardless of what he says we do not want an alternative. Too bad he let the cat out of the bag with that stmt, that the coalition is waiting to pounce. Too bad for them that so few showed up across Canada to help them along. And considering the majority of those that did show up have never, and never will vote for PMSH, all we saw were the faces of harperphopics.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Ha ha ha
How shocking I would be unconvinced by your complete lack of reasoned argument and facts in support of your position.
Silly me I guess.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Well, is Harper being accountable to parliament right now? (the answer is no).
The committees are indeed what people are upset about – because Harper clearly prorogued in order to shut down the committee looking into the Afghan detainee issue. He is running away from accountability.
But at least you finally seem to understand that.
By the way, rumour has it Harper will refuse to reconstitute the committee. Hmmm, I wonder why….
As for reinstating the bills, there is no guarantee that will happen, and no reason for the opposition to give in to Harper on this issue. I can only hope they extract something from him if he actually dares to ask.
Finally, I do not think someone who childishly refers to people as “teddy” or “sweetie” should be chastising others for their attitude. Get your own house in order.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Gayle
Let's put all things aside here as pertains to this latest prorogation and get a straight reply from you regarding Chretien's prorogation during the Somalia Scandal and again with Adscam/Sheila Fraser's damning report.
Are you implying that accountability was not an issue at those given times?
Was Chretien acting in the best interests of democracy when he implemented these prorogations while avoiding unwanted negative publicity.
Why the two tier(no comment vs outrage) response from the MSM,NDP, Accademia,Poli Protest Crowd etc.?
I'm amusedly confused…what's the difference?
January 27th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
The reason that I see the NDP and the Liberals are so tied up in knots over the proroguing of parliament is that the common cense laws; that need to be passed without the senate gutting them; will be passed. Canadians of all stripes will have the Conservatives to thank for it. The Liberals and NDP’s will be seen as the partisan roadblocks to good governance that they are. The rank and file of the NDP and the Liberals want tough on crime laws, the NDP Justice minister of Manitoba was on the air last week complaining that this provinces government keeps begging parliament to pass tougher laws. He should be begging the national NDPers to listen to the people instead of trying to steal power.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Gayle, my comment, was NOT to you and responding to anything you say in the same condescending way that you approach others, is simply not my style and an impossible behaviour curve for most to achieve but especially, I haven't the interest .
January 27th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Someday, I think I might like to visit you in your world, CS. It sounds interesting. Interesting how a 15% collapse in the polls means the Conservatives are surging, a climb of 5% by the Liberals means they are dead, the Liberals surging ahead of all the other federalist alternatives means they are double dead in Quebec, almost catching up to the Conservative war machine in fundraising and increasing donors by 7X in a year means they can't find Canadians willing to donate, and over 50% of Canadians opposing prorogation means no one cares and the Conservatives are winning the spin game.
Does Christmas fall in July where you live? Does it rain on cloudless days? And snow only when the temperature rises above 25 degrees? Do the Leafs win the Stanley Cup year after year?
January 27th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
First, the public fuss is not about prorogation per se, it is about THIS prorogation. Big difference.
So all the talk about who else prorogued way back when is simply avoiding the issue. Likewise, the GG's powers are exactly what they should be.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Ted,
Do you know michael mann? He had a similar problem. Ignored REAL evidence and only used data to tell his story. Remember the hockey stick graph that Gore made millions from?
You thesis about a few Polls mean something and ignoring the 2000-2008 elections results is hysterical. Official Polls always beat unofficial Polls. Sorry Teddy more bad news for Liberals.
In Neverland relying on spinning a few Polls are very important. I accept it you can't deal with the realworld.
Since 2000 the LPOC has lost ground to EVERY single party. The last Liberal (Chretien majority) was the result of a Pefect storm. Quebec and Ontario gave the Liberals their majority.
Those DAYS are over. Don't blame Canadians, Quebec has reduced the Liberals from 36 to 14 in QC. (ouch)
In Ontario (100 out of 103 seats with over 51% of POP) in 2008 the Liberals were reduced to Toronto stronghold. Liberals managed to hold on to 38 seats at 33.8%.
Without the Big donations from Bay Street the party has begun it deathspiral.
Here is a link with graphs and pictures. I know this is painful but Janine Krieber was honest about the Liberal party and the dustbin of history.
http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2010/01/armag...
January 27th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Ted and a few others like you roaming the blogs – you are all so holier than thou from the sidelines . How easy it is to criticize from your lofty perch without ever gotten your own hands dirty.
It's extremely easy to snipe from the sidelines, thanks. About as easy as it is for you.
Governing is a publicly accountable job, in a democracy. There are places where the Dear Leader works without accountability, for the greater good of citizens. They're called dictatorships.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
as usual in your brusmit alias you don't disappoint with nonsense. The senate is going to have answer to A MINORITY PARLIAMENT. That's the reality.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Mervin mervin….I suppose you think the current polls still spell majority goverment for your boy. Another poll out today suggests that his Haiti heroics are not being looked at very favorably. He has lied and cheated his way and now is being held accountable. Those are the real facts.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Polls polls and more polls tell the real story these days and it isn't looking good fro your boy mervin. Prorogation is on peoples minds every time he appears in public. That's how well the opposition has framed that issue. The fact that there are ?toriescrawling all over the place trying to downplay the issue means it hurts big time. The Afghan coverup will come back with a flourish. In any event Iggy is standing by watching the self destruction unfold and will pick up the pieces vote by vote.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Ted….CS has multiple aliases and use a bunch of them on Nik Nanos' site. ask him about informed 1 and brusmit and mrs brusmit.
Same silliness from him goes on there as well.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Chretien did not prorogue during the Somalia inquiry, so I don't know why you brought that up.
At the time he prorogued before the leadership convention, his reasoning that prorogation is necessary to allow the new leader time to get the PMO organized etc was plausible and reasonable. That is why no one complained. The report from the AG would still be tabled (and it was), and the AG is not an elected member of parliament and thus delaying her report is hardly the same thing as shutting down a committee of MP's who are asking uncomfortable questions about how the Prime Minister is handling detainees.
So I am not concerned about proroguing Parliament to delay a report from a public servant. I am concerned about proroguing Parliament to prevent MP's from doing their job and holding the government accountable to the people of this country.
In any event, this little argument is getting boring. People do not believe Harper on this. Time for you people to accept that.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Ha ha ha
Time to face the truth. This argument is over and no one believes Harper.
Time for you all to move on…
January 27th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
I spent 14 years as a family member of an elected official – they are as human as you and me and believe me- the job is hard, never ending and people like you seem to feel it is okay to call them names and treat them like dirt. Meanwhile, away from the media glare and the gossips the real work for real citizens gets done often at a huge sacrifice in having any personal or family time. It takes very special people to run for any elected office and we owe them all a lot more respect than they get. Every job in every organization involves accountability – but how about a little respect .
January 27th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Alberta girl……Harper was supposed to usher in anew way of governing with more accountability but you continue to relate his actions to Chretien's. That must mean he is not being accountable which we know to be a fact. Hypocrisy is a tory word.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
and why did Harper say he would be more accountable and deliver much less accountability. Comparing him to the past is an admission that he is doing much the same as his predecessors apparently and is not being accountable and open. So he must be a hypocrite and a liar.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
AG…. we understand it to be much less accountable than his promises.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
the conservatives bend and shape the truth a million different ways every day. They could teach the MSM a lot about creative reporting.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
lorraine……….I do constituency work and other volunteer work for my party and I say the Torie are hiding the facts about many many things. In my riding many hundreds showed up for the prorogation protest. Our riding association is strong has money in the bank and we all think Harper is a wannabe dictator.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
And all of you complainers only know what you hear or read in the media. I just cringe when I hear over and over that information is not available – there are millions of web pages and thousands of public servants posting information on pretty well anything you need to know. You think because the Opposition or the media claims they “want answers” that the answers are not forthcoming? What they really want is gotchas. Headlines. Not the daily grind of information and programs that matter to real people. If you really need to know something – that is not just some kind of info. used to attack but to help you in your life, your business, your home and family just check it out for yourself. If still not forthcoming contact your MP for help- that is what they do. If it is a provincial or municipal matter do the same thing. But just demanding “answers” and claiming “coverup” because it is not spo9onfed to you or is not for the public domain is small minded and not in the interests of anyone but headline writers and political opponents.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
“Accountability is not something that happens only on election day.”
You can say that again, and this CPC government under Prime Minister Stephen Harper's leadership is far and away more accountable than the Liberal$ ever were.
It would be helpful if our media would report all of the positive and proactive things the CPC are doing for ALL Canadians — not just special interest groups and friends of the government, which was always the case with the LPC — rather than being a mouthpiece for the disloyal Opposition.
Canadians — you know? the people of “the people's House” that Ignatieff talks about — are getting really tired of the gotcha politics being played by the Opposition parties, with the Liberal$ leading the posse. The faux scandals, ad nauseum, dreamed up by the Libs and their media toadies are becoming extremely tiresome, irksome, and counterproductive for the governance of this country.
If the Liberal$, NDP, and the Bloc have any respect left for democracy, they will vote non-confidence in Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government and bring on an election rather than lob a steady hail of rocks at PMSH and his party. I feel those blows too. As someone who voted for the present government and who is confident that the CPC is the party most able to govern Canada after 13 years of Liberal corruption, I find this constant undermining of Canada's sitting and duly elected government painful and unnecessary. It is mean-spirited and shows a lack of generosity on the part of the Opposition towards Canadian voters.
I'm still waiting for accountability on the part of the LPC when it comes to the over $40,000,000 stolen from Canadians during Adscam and concerning the loans still not repaid from the last election on the part of the LPC leadership candidates.
You want to talk accountability? Be my guest, tedbetts. Be my guest.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
I don't look for gotcha's. I look for responsibile and accountable government and its no where to be seen around Ottawa. Harper has become a Liberal in all but name to stay in power. That's the real fact.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
“You can say that again, and this CPC government under Prime Minister Stephen Harper's leadership is far and away more accountable than the Liberal$ ever were. “
This is what Conservatives just don't get. A tiny fraction of the population voted for the Liberals in the last election. It's not about the Liberals. Just because they set a low bar, if you want to even buy your arguement, doesn't mean that is the maximum standard for the next guy.
THAT is what the prorogation protests are about. THAT is why Harper has plummetted in the polls and the Liberals have only gained a little.
Moreover, Canadians are getting sick and tired of the catch-all, use-it-for-all-screw-ups-and-failings weakkneed, pass the buck excuse of the “Liberals did it too! the Liberals did it too! the Liberals did it too!”
It is exactly this kind of blind arrogance that got the Liberals booted, by the way. My sense is it is not all the way there yet for Harper but boy he sure keeps trying to get there.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
“I feel those blows too. As someone who voted for the present government and who is confident that the CPC is the party most able to govern Canada after 13 years of Liberal corruption, I find this constant undermining of Canada's sitting and duly elected government painful and unnecessary. It is mean-spirited and shows a lack of generosity on the part of the Opposition towards Canadian voters.”
I really can't believe a Conservative reporter, someone who supports Stephen Harper, could have the gall to say that. I really really can't.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Parnel, still banned from Nik's Nanos blog?
January 27th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
kenn2…when will Harper start being accountable? he is now in davos interviewing for his next job not defending or promoting Canada.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
people like you seem to feel it is okay to call them names and treat them like dirt
If you have an objection to something I've said, point it out and I'll respond. Otherwise, we're just playing pot-kettle here.
It takes very special people to run for any elected office and we owe them all a lot more respect than they get.
On this… we agree. Except that around here that privilege is only extended to members of the CPC.
But none of the foregoing in any way diminishes the requirement for government accountability and transparency, something Harper promised, but has failed to deliver yet.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
That was supposed to be in response to AG. Sorry
January 27th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
The legislation has already passed, though those tough on crime laws were killed when Harper prorogued Parliament, which should be a pretty good indication that he really does not care about them.
In any event, the Senate has not “gutted” anything, has amended very few of Harper's bills, and has only refused to pass one of them.
Maybe next time you try to convince people you might want to rely on facts.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Still trying to blame it all on one name I see when there are so mnay in reality. Tough isn't it when so many people call you out on your nonsense,right Ms. brusmit?
January 27th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Parnel I already stated that person is not me, clearly his grammar is MUCH better than mine. Apparently he and his wife have kept your aliases busy at Nik's.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm a “Conservative reporter”? What does that mean? I'm not a reporter and never have been.
I am a Canadian who voted for the CPC candidate in my riding and was delighted when Stephen Harper remained the PM which meant we weren't stuck with Stephane Dion as PM with his front bench as Cabinet Ministers . The election before that one, I was delighted that the Librano$ had been booted out of office and that Stephen Harper and his party were going to be given a chance to govern Canada rather than treat Canada as their own personal fiefdom as the Liberal$ did the whole time they were in office. (As I say, I've batb (been around the block) and I have a long memory of Liberal jiggery pokery.)
The Dippers, Liberal$, and Blockheads are playing at politics as they daily lob pot shots at our democratically elected government — rather than offer policies or reasonable amendments to CPC policies which result in shared governance of our country; their goal is to take power away from the CPC by any means possible rather than concerned themselves about the everyday lives of Canadians. They are emboldened in the knowledge that their pals in the media will quote them verbatim — and sight unseen, they know that their made-up scandals about the CPC will be blown out of proportion and presented to Canadians as fact, and they figure that if they keep battering the CPC long enough, Canadians will begin to accept their lies and that'll be the end of the CPC and “nasty Prime Minister Stephen Harper.” It's a nasty, cynical game.
So, what is it exactly that I've had “the gall to say”? Please explain your thinking (?), because I really, really can't.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
gayle, we must thank Stephen for keeping the progrogation issue on the front page
January 27th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
M123t….always interesting to see a tory whine. Iggy hasn't lifted a finger basically other than to lay on the wood to harper and he's back in contention. When he finally breaks a sweat it will be cxurtains for Harper and his ilk.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
As for another comment of yours: “All that is left is to start talking about Adscam …”
What an arrogant, facetious statement. I'm still pi**ed off about Adscam, of which there is a lot of unfinished business … something to do with a “culture of corruption” in the Liberal Party, according to the Gomery Report.
Until Canadians get to the bottom of this slimy, ugly, corrupt chapter in our history — hey, it's not just all about the Liberal$; non-l/Liberal Canadians matter too — we're going to keep talking about it. It's not going to go away just because you and your cronies think “it's over,” “it's water under the bridge,” “just move along.”
Some of us are still mad as hell about it.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:04 am
I want you to keep dreaming with those rose coloured glasses my friend.
Remember last year when everybody had written Harper off. Well you saw what happened. The problem is Iffy is Iffy and he has foot and mouth disease. The more he talks the more he will flip flop. Yesterdays big job creation announcement was a bust and you know it.
The fact is Harper has already done the capital cost allowance thingy in two budgets, enterpreneurs? and university students? Come on get real. Nobody believes this crap will create the jobs. It is economic policy that creates jobs, not government. Harper has the economic file hands down and your guy doesn't know how to add up his own cheque book.
As I have reminded people many times there are only two choices in the next election;Harper and Iffy. Canadians will give the PM credit for stearing the country through the worst recession since the great depression. They will see Iffy for who he really is; a carpetbagger who knows little about the country and who has no real policies that people can believe in. The rest is all white noise.
By the way I don't know you so I would prefer you use my login name when responding to me.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Of course you didn't mention that the pollsters thought that none of the polls showed momentum for Iffy and that the prorogue issue will pass.
Watch what happens when the Olympics come, Harper comes back from a successful summit in Davos, begin putting meat on the bones for his new policy in Haiti and the plight of women and children in poorer countries. Watch for new items in the budget which will blow the Libs out of the water.
Lied and cheated? This must be parnel by another handle. How has he hurt ordinary citizens in the country. Short of complaining about the income trust back flip he is following through on his policies. Prove he has cheated anybody. Utter crap by a partisan hack.
The old story line that he is a big bully, a meanie etc applies to the fact that he plays politics to win and the opposition parties look weak. Of course much of this is driven by the lame street media who don't like the fact that he ignores them and really couldn't give a damn about what they have to say.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:40 am
How do you know he is a better campaigner? He lost the first leadership race he ran in and he got appointed as leader. There is no evidence he has the ability to conduct a campaign.
Harper knows the country and you know it. He has been in politics a long time and has travelled the country many times listening to people. Not like Iffy who prefers to talk to a pile of university kids who are wet behind the ears and have no idea what the real world is like. It shows where his interest lies; pontificating and it is not mixing with the real people who actually vote and where his non existent policies may impact.
Avoiding accountability? Harper has allowed parliament a say on when to go to war. That never happened previously. Provided quarterly updates on the stimulus program as requested by Parliament. He allowed a free vote on gay marriage. He called the inquiry on Schreiber/Mulroney. He sued Elections Canada for changing the interpretation of the election rules after the fact and won. He won against Election Canada in respect to GST rebates. Those are all evidence of accountability not just for the government but for its institutions.
You can criticize him for breaking the spirit of his fixed election date law but what is more democratic than allowing the people to decide. Instead of worrrying about the votes the Conservatives got you should focus on the dismal showing of the official opposition. Historical lows and they have a long road to hoe. Where will they get the extra 40+ seats to win even a minority? Quebec (outside Montreal) is a write off and the West is a write off. So unless Ontario abandons Harper there is more opposition time for the Liberals.
Don't worry the Afghan detainee issue is not gone I am sure. The opposition can howl in early March after they support the throne speech and the budget. We both know the reason the media and the opposition is upset is because they have lost any momentum and the political damage it could cause. Sorry for their luck. The prorogation thing was driven by the lame street media and the opposition only jumped into the act when they saw how hard the media was driving the issue. This to will pass.
Responsible government? What in the world are you talking about. If what you say is true and the opposition believe it to be true then they have an obligation to defeat the government and let the people decide. Responsible government? Indeed.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:53 am
Gayle, Gayle, Gayle…you want to play with semantics. The bottom line in both situations is the same; the House is not sitting. Don't be so damn arrogant. Nobody is trying to confuse the issue.
The House was not scheduled to come back until Jan 25th and will not sit during the Olympics. It is the same thing. Nobody is home.
The time of actual prorogation is 17 additional days. Hardly the end of democracy as we know it. Watch for it Gayle. At the end of 2010 the media, pundits etc will say the decision to prorogue was a good decision. Watch for it coming to a TV near you at the end of 2010.
We will see if the opposition parties really believe the hype and the rhetoric exercised by them and the media after the throne speech and the budget are presented. Vote non confidence and let democracy reign.
There are only two choices in the next election; Harper or the carpetbagger. Even the pollsters are saying that the current decline in the polls for the Conservatives is not good news for Iffy. Read them and weep.
Canadians know who has provided good leadership over the past year and Iffy if he has the brains they say he has will see it and bide his time.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:10 am
here's something from EKOS via Jane Taber that will bring smiles to many Canadians:
Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:01 AM EST
Will Canadians want to 'throw the bums out' in a spring election?
Jane Taber
The latest seat projections from EKOS Research show Stephen Harper’s reigning Tories as the Official Opposition with Michael Ignatieff’s Liberals sitting on the government bench in the House of Commons.
Pollster Frank Graves calls this shift “eye-popping.” And he believes “aversion to an election has declined significantly. “
“There is a lot of throw-the-bums-out sentiment starting to percolate out there,” he says.
Plugging his new poll numbers into his seat projection model, Mr. Graves has the Liberals winning 119 compared to 110 for the Tories if an election were held today. The NDP would win 30 seats, the Bloc could garner 46 and Elizabeth May’s Green Party would win one seat – in Ontario – with two more going to “other” parties or independents, according to Mr. Graves’ projection.
Last week, he had the Tories with 117 seats compared to 114 for the Liberals. The Tories now have 145 seats to 77 for the Liberals in the 308 seat House of Commons.
Mr. Graves says this could well open the door to a spring election, based on the Conservative budget that is to be delivered March 4.
“It is eye-popping to note that the CPC have gone from a seat projecting in the fall which pegged them at 177 to 110 and opposition status,” he says. “This is by no means a prediction of any future election, but it is a whiplash-like shift in any hypothetical parliament based on today’s voter preferences.”
As to a spring election, Mr. Graves believes the game may have changed.
Last fall, Canadians were dead set against a trip to the ballot box. Indeed, the Liberal vow to take down the government last fall cost them dearly in the polls.
Mr. Graves now says the opposition parties have three months to develop and build upon “this anti-democratic theme” sparked by Mr. Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament. At the same time, he says the opposition needs to “construct a plausible narrative of what would be better and different if the government were actually displaced.”
January 28th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
They are not the same, no matter how many times you say otherwise.
Do you see the Afghanistan Committee sitting right now? You don't. You know why? Because Harper prorogued so he did not have to suffer the indignity of being exposed as a liar and a fraud.
Prorogation killed the committee, and that is why he did it. I know it, you know it, and the rest of the country knows it too.
January 28th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
I take it you did not read the Globe today.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Have some sense they had maybe 22 -25 000 out of their 210 000clicky buddies. By the time the conservatives go back to parliament they will be 90 days ahead of the rest!!! They are the only ones working!! Get over it!! Stop using the numbers on the anti-prorogue site. They couldn't agree amongst themselves!!!
January 28th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
I always love the letters that begin with “I voted for Harper, or I've always been conservative but…” You know it's to give their comment some believability.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Haiti has had an effect-otherwise the conservatives would be behind by 5% due to the media coverage of the rallys, facebook and Iggy all week in front of the doors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It stopped the bleeding!!! The conservatives dropped by 0.4% and the liberals went up by 0.7% in a week when the liberals should be miles ahead!!!
January 28th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives contort themselves in order to soothe themselves.
Just listen to what you are saying here:
First, if the LPC “should” be ahead, that would only be because of Harper's collosal miscalculation.
Second, you seem pretty eager to latch onto Haiti as being a good thing for Harper. That is kind of icky.
January 28th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
And he'll be even less credible this time than the last time. For some of these crime bills, this will be the third or fourth time he has introduced them, having killed them himself two or three times before already.
I am beginning to see what Andrew Potter meant. He has no intention or desire to pass the crime bills. He just wants to be able to keep announcing them just before a possible election.
Judging from the reaction to it, I would say he knows how to play his base, wring more dollars from them, without ever actually doing anything.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
God he IS GOOD ISN'T HE???????
January 29th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
All Betts are off…………………………………………Teddy.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:10 am
Soooooooo original…………………………………….Brucey
January 31st, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Soooooooo original…………………………………….Brucey