How do the Liberals define hypocrisy?

Were they secretly working their buns off to get the Khadr kid to his “home” in Canada?

Do they feel the investment of unknown amounts of money to rehabilitate/deprogram such a person will be worth the effort or result in his becoming a model citizen of Canada, willing to fight for this country?
Perhaps Romeo Dallaire could take him under his care, he seems to have the utmost concern for what he has determined him to have been, a “child soldier”. Overlooking the fact he wasn't in any army to be considered a “soldier”, just a rag-tag terrorist of the same stripe his father was killed engaging with.

Yeah, bring him home to be coddled along with the rest of his lovely family. Are any of them employable or will we as taxpayers be paying their expenses?

It looks as though Bob Rae is getting to big for his boots. Ignatieff had better hurry home.

Hpocrisy is the fact that the Harpercrites don't want to repatriate any Canadians that are held in other Countries since they have several definitions of citizenship. There are the ones that bring glory to himself like the millions spent bringing people out of Lebanon so called “Canadians” many of whom haven't set foot in this country in generations.

No one needs lessons on hypocrisy from the Harpercrites.

I guess you are forgetting about the two young Canadians who are facing beheading in Saudi and haven't until very very recently had any contact with Ottawa. Convenient memories you reformatories have.

Proof positive: Liberals are hypocrites who try to hide their poop like the puffin …

Oh the irony for McTeague, he’s the same guy who stayed mute about William Samson who was actually Tortured in a Saudi jail as Bill Graham agreed with but claimed that doing nothing kept the Saudis happy and this prolonged Samson’s beheading to rescue him.
The Liberals were also in Charge during the Maher Arar case , and it’s amazing how the CBC now wants to pin all of these Human Rights abuses cause by Liberals as a Harper problem fro him to wear it.

Oh the irony for McTeague, he’s the same guy who stayed mute about William Samson who was actually Tortured in a Saudi jail as Bill Graham agreed with but claimed that doing nothing kept the Saudis happy and this prolonged Samson’s beheading to rescue him.
The Liberals were also in Charge during the Maher Arar case , and it’s amazing how the CBC now wants to pin all of these Human Rights abuses cause by Liberals as a Harper problem fro him to wear it.

Libs grasping at straws on every front.

Libs grasping at straws on every front.

heh, Bob Rae says in 2003, Liberals broke the law, at least that's how I read it:

“Our laws make it very clear how Mr. Khadr SHOULD HAVE BEEN treated.''

What would have the ' 2003 Ignatieff' said about the treatment of Khadr?
Would he have lost any sleep over it?

''and haven't until very very recently had any contact with Ottawa''

you guessing?
Must be. Because you have ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing who or when the Canadian government contacted the Saudi's….that is not something that ANY Government runs to tell the TorStar or G&M untill negotiations are over.

I have posted parts of this comment on other blogs discussing Omar Khadr, and have included some of the arguments in emails to some MPs. I believe they bear repeating.

Omar Khadr’s status as a child soldier is doubtful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_ch…
“International human rights law
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Art. 38, (1989) proclaimed:
“State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities.
However, children who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers. …”
Mr. Khadr was two months shy of his 16th birthday. Born Sept. 19, 1986, Khadr was involved in that particular battle on July 27, 2002.
Strictly speaking, the “child soldier” designation does not apply in his case.

And Article 3 of the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/protocolchild states the following:
“3. States Parties that permit voluntary recruitment into their national armed forces under the age of 18 years shall maintain safeguards to ensure, as a minimum, that:
(a) Such recruitment is genuinely voluntary;
(b) Such recruitment is carried out with the informed consent of the person's parents or legal guardians;
(c) Such persons are fully informed of the duties involved in such military service;
(d) Such persons provide reliable proof of age prior to acceptance into national military service.”

Does Khadr's situation conform with those conditions?
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/doczone/2008/om…
• Omar Khadr’s parents volunteered his services as a translator to militants affiliated with Al-Qaeda
• As to whether the service was voluntary, there’s a picture online of a grinning Omar Khadr proudly carrying a pair of bloodied hands cut off from an adversary. He had them slung over his shoulder, as a hunter would bringing home his prize. Not a convincing picture of Khadr as “victim.”
• The conclusion one can draw from such a picture is that Khadr was well aware and happy to comply with the duties involved in “military service.”
Again, strictly speaking, the “child soldier” designation does not apply in Khadr's case.

Perhaps Biffy can take him home and educate him on how to be an American – sorry Canadian – like he wants us to become. [Strange how LIEberals kept calling Harper a supporter of Bush - and Biffy is his biggest supporter, and nothing said about that - Go figure.] I think Biffy would be good for the “21 year old child” who has not learned to respect Canada and our freedoms. Perhaps he can follow him around and see how one can make remarks and flip-flop like DeYawn has in the past. Sad to say Canadians are putting Biffy on probation, and he is not doing a good job. Biffy has yet to say what the LIEberals fiscal plans are except to raise our taxes, support the Greenshaft tax – in any form – and already is dividing the country – such as his comments about Harper being from Calgary. An old LIEberal trick called region against region so they can get the Ontario and Quebec vote.

These LIEberals are the ones who need to be educated in common sense before spouting how Canada is representing this “poor baby” who never supported him when the LIEberals were in power.. After he is tried in the USA – perhaps then we should see what should be done with him. I think he shoul;d live with Bob Ray or Iffy until he is re-educated enough to respect Canada, and that life is valuable to us.

Short History:
November, 2001: After the Taliban is chased out of Kabul, Khadr flees to his father’s orphanage in Logar, Afghanistan. June, 2002: Khadr is now 14, and has been training on AK-47s, Soviet PKs and rocket-propelled grenades. He works as a translator for al-Qaeda and conducts a surveillance mission, spying on U.S. military convoys at an airbase in Khost, Afghanistan. July 20, 2002: Khadr plants 10 land mines in the mountains between Gardez and Khost, which are intended to strike U.S. military targets.

July 27, 2002: U.S. troops surrounding Khadr’s compound are met with heavy gunfire. Two Afghan government soldiers are killed and several U.S. troops sustain injuries. Warplanes blast the compound until the gunfire subsides. U.S. troops enter the compound and find Khadr, who hurls a grenade at Sergeant First Class Christopher Speer and kills him. U.S. forces open fire on Khadr. He is injured and taken to Bagram Air Base.
October, 2002: Khadr is sent to the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. February, 2003: RCMP and CSIS investigators interview Khadr at Guantanamo.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/story…

LIEberals have never tried to get him back into Canada until the Conservatives gained power – they knew about the CSIS report and did not consider what they did wrong while under their watch. Why now? I'm sure he will sue us tax payers for about $50,000,000 – and get it if the LIEberald and the Non Democradic Party have their way. [Perhaps the LIEberals are hoping that he will donate it all to the LIEberal party to help pay off the promised money stolen from Ad-scam, which we will never see.]

How many years did they have to bring this terrorist home? Just like the promise of PM JC to abolish the GST – as long as they were in power…. NEVER.

Gary said: “… it's amazing how the CBC now wants to pin all of these Human Rights abuses cause by Liberals as a Harper problem for him to wear it.” true. Just like the EI situation – it is as good thing the CVons took 2 billion of that and placed it in the EI account instead of General Revenue – to have us pay an extra tax we will never get back.

Many argue that Omar Khadr should be patriated because President Obama said he is closing Guantanamo, as if it were a fait accompli.

As outlined in this official press release http://washingtonindependent.com/26844/executiv… will indeed be closed within less than a year’s time, if Pres. Obama keeps his promise.
However, in the intervening time, a case-by-case review of the detainees’ offenses will be undertaken, at which time it will be determined what should happen to the detainees.
To plead, then, that Mr. Khadr should be patriated immediately because the US intends to close Guantanamo is a facile argument.

Note what it says in the Executive Order:

“Sec. 2. Findings.

(b) … To the extent practicable, the prompt and appropriate disposition of the individuals detained at Guantánamo should precede the closure of the detention facilities at Guantánamo.
(c) The individuals currently detained at Guantánamo have the constitutional privilege of the writ of habeas corpus. Most of those individuals have filed petitions for a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court challenging the lawfulness of their detention. …
(f) Some individuals currently detained at Guantánamo may have committed offenses for which they should be prosecuted. It is in the interests of the United States to review whether and how any such individuals can and should be prosecuted.

Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo.
The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States.”


When the US judicial process has been concluded, then and only then should the Canadian government decide on a course of action in Khadr’s case.

National Post has picked up on the hypocrates:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullco…

many of you thck headed reformatories think this abour being soft on terrorists. There is a pronciple involved and that is the fact that all Canadians are eligible to be treated farily under any law.

I think Khadr is a terrorist.

Would you like it if some relative was detained overseas and the Canadian government did absloutely nothing to ensure your relative's rights was not protected by the government. Waht is the purpose of having a Canadian passport if it does nothing to protect you while abroad.

wilson, I do know when they were contacted because the relatives told us so in various interviews with the press which is the only way to get to this government sometimes.

Good try at covering up the reformatory hypocrisy though

The only right that Canada regularly defends is the right for an accused or detained Canadian not to be treated adversely by another government because he or she is Canadian.

Too many people think that being Canadian means you can commit crimes abroad and have diplomats come bail you out, or that you can lob a grenade at a soldier and have the Prime Minister beg for forgiveness on your behalf.

The only right that Canada regularly defends is the right for an accused or detained Canadian not to be treated adversely by another government because he or she is Canadian.

Too many people think that being Canadian means you can commit crimes abroad and have diplomats come bail you out, or that you can lob a grenade at a soldier and have the Prime Minister beg for forgiveness on your behalf.

Forget the so called irony of visas and look at the real hypocrisy of the Harpo gang of liars:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/ou…

The easy way out won't happen: that a resumption of normal economic growth will balance the budget by 2013-14. That had been the Conservatives' hope; that remains the government's spin. It is almost certainly wrong.

By 2013-14, it is doubtful that Stephen Harper will still be around, unless he startles everyone and wins a majority. Why should he court short-term unpopularity by making the hard choices of raising taxes and/or cutting spending to balance the budget, when the easy political choice beckons – doing nothing and letting some other leader clean things up.

Apparently, the easy choice is the one Mr. Harper has chosen. He is already saying he will neither raise taxes nor cut spending, but rather just let deficits run on if economic growth alone won't balance the budget.
………………………………………….

So, the government in power just rides the deficit knowing full well the public may suck it up and someone else will clean up one major economic mess down the road. Talk about greed for power and remember that Harper ran on doing government differently and with ACCOUNTABILITY.
His accountability is only to keep himself in office which is why he is starving the PBO. Thankfully there are outside economists who can show his hypocrisy for what it is.

This government represents a serious intellectual and ethical vacuum in our Country and its future wealth.

Terry1 conveniently forgot that the Liberal Government of the day made no attempt to bring Omar ” Home” in fact they were complicit in the ” mistreatment ” of him, since they were the Government in Power. How come it is now all Harpers fault. Talk about double speak.

Thank you Gabby , well done. we needed to have a clear picture if Omar was indeed a child soldier as has been claimed. How convenient for the Liberals. I would bet that most of them don't know about the ” designation” of Child Soldier.

Terry . The real issue here is that the Libs were in power and did nothing to stop the ” inhumane” investigation or bring Omar back to Canada. You are nothing but Hyprocites.

Terry trying to change the theme of the conversation. How convenient.

Omanator,Where in my post did I mention Libs were better?

Your brain dead reaction to everything is a sad commentary and explains the average Canadian voter to me.

At least I add content………you add zero except for the web space you infringe on.

Stephen, this blog was once a venue for heated but reasonably respectful debate.

However, it has recently become primarily a platform for Terry1's name-calling, with such epithets as “brain-dead” and “thick headed reformatories” – not to mention his countless typos and spelling mistakes. Terry repeatedly describes conservatives as “angry tories” yet he himself is consumed by haste and anger, manifested whenever he doesn't bother to revise his fetid discharges to make them passably presentable.

Please understand, I am not asking you to ban Terry's endless eructions, but perhaps a reminder to all who post here would be in order: eliminate the name-calling, and don’t encourage the truculent troll.

Gabby, I know its very lonely being a reformatory in Quebec but having scanned your history here I found some pretty interesting insults toward others. Carpe diem and please be honest at all times.

Liberal audacity astounds me – the party repeatedly comes down on our PM for the same darned thing they did – only the LPC doings had far greater negative consequences than our PM's doings.

When did the libs last have a $50BB defict…..muldoon did. Chretien/Martin didn't.

Audacity is the lies Harpo tells every day while proclaiming his Christianty.

Nice channel changing, Terry. Are you and Gayle related?

And what, pray tell, did Wayne Easter do to bring him home? After all, Omar was incarcerated while Chretien was in power. I anxiously await your reply, Terry.

Terry – yes, as a new Canadian, he is entitled to his rights. However, if he is a terrorist, those rights should be suspended. Human rights are wonderful and that is one of the things that makes our country great but…we have gone too far with them. There has to be a line in the sand.

As for the PM's hypocrisy – Terry, please do not try to ignore the fact that the Chretien government did nothing for Khadr. I would love to know why the Chretien government turned a blind eye to his situation. As for Bob Rae – I don't know how a guy who failed so miserably during his stint as premier could even show his face in public, let alone criticize a PM who did not ruin a province or country.

Oh, and before you start in on Harper, please let me remind you that Trudeau created a far worse deficit and recession than Harper ever could. I remember double-digit inflation, interest rates, and unemployment rates. Double-digit…plus a huge deficit.

Chretien's surpluses were false surpluses. Gutting the health care system and robbing the EI fund is not a surplus. Compare Trudeau's era in today's dollars. And, when did Harper have double-digit unemployment, inflation, and interest rates?

PS – what did the LPC do for Omar Khadr when Chretien was in power? As for lies – I seem to recall Chretien saying something about scrapping the GST. I also remember him trying to choke some protester. Oh, and Gagliano, Radwanski, Dingwall…care to add them to the mix when you're talking lies?

When does Harper proclaim his Christianity? Stooping to bringing up his faith is proof that you have nothing constructive to add. May I remind you that there are a number of MPs across all parties who are openly Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish…etc. Faith has nothing to do with it. It is the LPC and the media who make a big deal out of Harper being of the Christian faith. I believe that Martin mentioned his Catholicism once or twice. I also recall Ignatieff declaring that he is an athiest. So, let's leave faith out of it, shall we?

Does this guy sound more like Gayle all the time? Good grief – he is using her lines. Unless, of course….

For once, I have to agree with something Gayle has said a number of times: the moment somebody resorts to person attacks (pretty much all the time with Terry), it indicates that the commenter has nothing to add.

Why leave faith out of it. read some of Harpos old NCC stuff and be prepared to discuss intellingently after that.

Conservatives have nothing to be worried about from TerryGale….nothing at all. Take your best shot while your ship sinks because your man still has no plan. Nor does he represent a credible alternative to the Harper government.

Everytime Mr. Ignatieff opens his mouth, whether it's two months ago or two years ago it's good news for the PM.

Still not getting it done TerryGale!

Gabby – you offer great proof but it's lost on way too many I fear. Hope you have better luck with the MPs you write to.

Only the Liberal Left are concerned about the Khadr Kid. They knew it wasn't a vote getter to make an effort to bring the poor child soldier home to the loving arms of Canadian Justice, they did squat in four years in power on the case. When the Conservatives won power it became a cause of the utmost importance to feed their agenda. The Khadr family are not loved by rank and file Canadians, most would be happy to see the back of all of them.

When it comes to surpluses, it's not too difficult to acquire them by robbing pension funds and EI to attain them. Martin was a master at it.

I'm of Lebanese descent. You have a problem with Lebanese people? Sounds a bit racist to me, Terry.

Think you want to address what Gary brought up? Can you deny that it happened on Liberal turf? Or are you just changing the channel because you can't deny that it happened during the Liberal reign of corruption and robbery of the Canadian people?

Gabby – I think Terry has an obsession with you.

Gabby I agree with you. Most of the Blog is being taking up with Terry1' s name calling. I think the only thing we can do is simply ignore him and shut him out. We can still have discussion worthwhile.
Just pretend he does not exist.

East of Eden, before you get on your horse again, let me remind you that Canada's deficit during the Trudeau years was not higher per capita than any other western country and we were having a larger population baby boomer growth spurt than all the others. Of course don't let facts get in the way and also just simply ignore Mulroney's destruction of our finances something Flatulence and Harpo are doing to us again.

E of E…. a simple question. Have Harpo and Flatulence changed that method of accounting? They haven't and won't because its stupid to do so and they know it.
Harper won't have double digit inflation becasue he won't be around in the next 18 months, when it hits, but he has set the course for that to happen. As for double digit unemplyment that's just around the corner and he also may not be around when that happens later this year.

Chretien and Martin inherited double digit interest rates and unemployment along with a structural defict of $43BB in 1993 dollars from Muldoon and quickly changed that model. Within three years they had inflation under control and employment was growing very fast.

Liz J hysterical………lets see now. Khadr was captured after 911 when the world was paranoid and if you check back you will note that our government did inquire and let the US know he was Canadian. They were within their rights try him as he was accused of killing Americans. Any Canadian commiting a criminal act has to face justice in the jurisdiction it happened under. Whether Quatanamo was a legal jail is another question yet to be decided. Next stupid comment please.

Let me ask the same question again as I did above. Have Harpo and flatulence moved that UI fund out from general funds? The answer dear lady is a resounding NO becasue it makes no sense. Martin did the right thing but parliament had not changed the rules is the only issue there.
Which pension funds did Chretien/Martin rob? Give us your list.

of course Bill Graham did not so as Gary suggested. Bill Graham is very decent and honest human being. He took a serious interest in that file and as it turns out I had lunch on Friday with a former high level career diplomat who was very involved in that file. Lets just say simply that Gary is out to lunch. I also do consulting and other work with the Saudis and know the file reasonably well but you won't get more than that from me other than to say Gary is being very partisan and ignorant of real facts.

What does your heritage have to do with the fact our government wasted millions saving people with dual citizenship and permanent residences there. Where is the racism? These were not true refugees and most other Lebanese people did not leave their Country during that problem.

You wuldn't know racism if it hit you in the lower posterior.

Actually, Terry, I do know about racism – given that my late father was a dark olive-skinned descendent. He raced racism at work and we faced it at home. Even my mother was verbally attacked by a woman on our street when I was growing up. You see, Terry, we moved into a neighbourhood in which there were covenants among the homeowners – they would not sell their homes to anybody with a name that didn't sound Anglo or if the would-be buyers were not lily-white. We slipped in and all but a handful of the neighbours turned their backs on us.

I even changed my last name when I hit 21 because I was frequently singled-out because of it. Middle-Eastern food didn't become popular until the 1980s. If you ever saw the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you'll recall a scene when young Tula had moussaka for her lunch and the two other girls referred to it as moose ka-ka. We never took Lebanese food in our lunches because it would have resulted in ridicule for us in the lunch room. My mother's side of the family has Irish names because, when her parents and their siblings arrived in Canada, they spoke no English so the port authority officers gave them names which sounded close to their Arabic names.

So, get off your high horse, Terry. You made a comment about Lebanese people using our system – that indicates to me that you have a problem with middle eastern people. That, in my books makes you a bigot, at the very least.

Uh, I remember Trudeau coming into power when I was graduating high school. Considering that it was at the beginning of the 1970s, I believe that the baby boom was over. I was born in 1953 – around the middle of the boom and by the time I graduated high school, the early boomers were already producing a new generation.

I see you used yet another of Gayle's lines in your comment. Gayle, however, never used stupid names like Flatulence and Harpo – for that, I'll give her credit.

East of Eden, Andrew Coyne wrote an interesting essay on Trudeau's deficits called “Social Spending,Taxes, and the Debt.”
http://andrewcoyne.com/essays/BookChapters/Trud…

Here are some interesting excerpts:
• Net federal debt in fiscal 1968, just before Trudeau became Prime Minister, was about $18-billion, or 26 per cent of gross domestic product; by his final year in office, it had ballooned to $206-billion — at 46 per cent of GDP, nearly twice as large relative to the economy.

• The years from fiscal 1976 to fiscal 1985 were, fiscally speaking, a lost decade: ten straight years in which the government ran not only an overall deficit, but an operating deficit. The overall deficit throughout this later phase never fell below 3 per cent of GDP; it averaged 5.6 per cent. In that calamitous final year of Liberal rule, 1984-85, total spending exceeded revenues by more than 50 per cent.

• No wonder the Liberals' successors had such trouble bringing the debt to heel. Summing across the nine years of Conservative [Mulroney] government, the federal government actually spent about $14-billion less on programs than it collected in revenues. Every dollar of the $300-billion added to the debt during the Tory years was interest on the debt the Liberals left behind.

And Jeffrey Simpson, who was quoted here to support an anti-Harper POV, wrote this in his recent column “Our politicians take the easy way out and leave us with the bill.” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/ou…
“Canadians have seen this movie before, and it wasn't pretty. Deficits started in 1975. They were thought then to be “temporary,” a tonic against slow growth. For the next two decades, in good times and bad, under Liberal and Conservative governments, there were always reasons why tomorrow, not today, was preferable to doing something serious.”

Mind you, it's an exercise in futility to convince rabid Liberal supporters that their hero left Mulroney's government a huge debt to deal with, regardless of who writes about it.

I'm sure someone will chirp in saying Andrew Coyne is nothing but a Conservative hack, yet will turn around and immediately quote him as an authority whenever he slags PM Harper.

Anyway, some people try to rewrite history to suit their own purpose, so maybe it's better to leave them to their rantings … but, no matter how they try, they can't change the past.

For your own information I ahve lived in and visited every middle eastern Country over the last 35 years and still go there at least once a year. My hosts yesterday at a party are Lebanese and my best friend in Montreal still has a house in Lebanon and it was he who clearly pointed fingers at the Harpercrites for their misstaken efforts during the problems there.

Calling people a bigot openly w/o cause is actually ignorant and an apology is in order. You cannot even begin construe my comments as bigotry and if you did I ahve cleared that up. Then again you are a typical angry tory who thinks everyone else is wrong.

The baby boom years FYI were from 1946 to 1965 and those people were all needing massive new education and infrastructure facilities all throughout the Trudeau years. Where else did he spend the money if not on a fast growing Country?

Why don't you read up on thiss stuff instead of spewing garbage like you do.

Gabby, how about using material other than reporters with a lsant as you so often accuse me of doing.
Thee are several much more academic studies of the baby boomer period frommwhich to glean the reasons behind the issues of the day. Your typical narrow minded view comes into focus very easily whern real research is done.
http://www.infc.gc.ca/research-recherche/result…
“Several factors contributed to the constantly growing infrastructure problems, including the pressure on the budgets due to the economic recession, some post-Second World War infrastructure reaching the end of its service life, rapid inflation of the late 1970´s,”

Well, the Libs did pilfer $54 BB from EI and then channelled it into general rev's to make it look like we had a surplus!

Well, I don't see any criticism of the Libs / Wayne Easter's handling of this file by you anywhere, so that implies to me you had no problem with it back then, and likely would still not have a problem with it – or at the very least, not being publicly critical over it – if your beloved, elitist, almighty party were in government .

And those two references are relevant because … ???

This thread WAS about the patriation of Omar Khadr.
You've gone all over the map, as usual, polluting this site with your pedestrian pustules – not to mention your pompous preening about your connections to the Laurier Club et al..

Yes, yes, I know … “Gabby the lone angry Quebec reformatory blah blah blah …”

Chretien/Martin illegally drained $54 billion from the stand alone EI fund and put it in general revenues to reduce the deficit. Now you say it is a correct move because Harpers gov´t has not put it back. Wow you are blindfoldrd for sure. One can accept the Liberals backtracking on re-instating a 7% GST or not repealing NAFTA. We grudgingly accept that there will be no real justice for the $100 million dollars the federal Liberal Party, in brazen outright corruption, papered favoured Quebec political ridings, advertising agencies and pet Liberals with in brown paper bags. One is still relieved that the Liberals shameless myopia almost cause Quebec to actually separate from Canada. In my mind one of the most shameful things that the Liberals did was beginning in 1993 they completely, totally stopped funding low income housing in all of Canada. One of the most devastating acts in their fiscal downloading to the provinces in order to appear to be debt gurus. Our inner cities are suffering badly. Of course you would never admit that the Conservative gov´t has already begun to try to make this social housing disaster right. To you terrytune, it is all about vilifying the enemy and that is why you do not get it. Facts and spin. The latter is more fun than facing reality. Now terrytune go ahead and have your last word. Everyone now can see that you have little else to do, but spin the Liberal yarn.

The Khadr family was flown first class from Pakistan to Toronto all paid for by the Liberal govt of Canada as a reward for killing Americans.
Nice, eh?!

I have lots of titbits on this “favorite family of Canadian media”. Might write a book one day that will make honest folks throw up with disgust at their Leftist parties.

It's amazing to me how Jean Chretien fell in love with the Khadr family, even went to visit him in a Pakistan hospital then when the “child soldier” of that terrorist supporting family got hauled off to Gitmo , accused of killing an American medic, they did nothing about bringing the darling “home” during their ensuing four years in power. Why? They did polling and found out most Canadians do not want him or any of his family in Canada period.

Was Jean Chretien that far out of the loop on the intelligence file?

Sadly, these parasitic residents of this country are cheering while our soldiers are fighting and dying at the hands of the same terrorists the Khadrs support. They are family friends of Osama Bin Laden. Why is anyone in this country concerning themselves with how our American allies are treating the kid his family reared for terror. His mother said on National TV she would be proud to have her sons martyr themselves for their cause.

Liz , your are so dead on. I don't want these people in Canada either. They are living off our tax dollars. Not working no way. Yes, all the Liberals love it, because they themselves have questionalble ethics.

Liz, East, Gabby … please stop encouraging this fool who calls herself Terry1.
My index finger is almost sprained from all this scroling past her endless name-calling and asinine ramblings.
Please, even Gayle brought a higher level of intelligent debate that this clown, if nothing else she didn’t resort to this infantile name calling that Terry1 seems to have to resort to.
If fact, reading Terry1′s comments, I kind of miss Gayle.

Liz, East, Gabby … please stop encouraging this fool who calls herself Terry1.
My index finger is almost sprained from all this scroling past her endless name-calling and asinine ramblings.
Please, even Gayle brought a higher level of intelligent debate that this clown, if nothing else she didn’t resort to this infantile name calling that Terry1 seems to have to resort to.
If fact, reading Terry1′s comments, I kind of miss Gayle.

At least read your own posts before you look so stupid. Your post abovve mine refers to Trudeaus deficits and I responded on topic.

Too bad you're so busy looking hard for Tory positives whci are hard to find.

Show us your references,please or stop rumour mongering. You sound like a tory war room persona.

Omanator, your responses are so stupid you should possibly not be in Canada either.

Liz J hysterical while you rail on about so called lib follies you should be reiminded about who ahs ruled this country for the last 40 years almost always in a majority position.

Since 1963, a period of 46 years, the Libs have served this country as the government for almost 34 out of those years.

In the last election many liberals sat on their votes and the Tory vote declined. It would seem probable that the electorate in Canada does not support the current tories by a probable 70% to 30%.

Canada has become one of the top five countries in the world during this period of majority liberal rule.

Canada repatriated control over its own legal destiny during this period while the Tories created the Bloc during Mulroneys ill advisewd meech lake accord.

So all your preaching looks pretty stupid considering the real facts.

Foaming at the mouth (laurier club waitress)
“Chretien/Martin illegally drained $54 billion from the stand alone EI fund and put it in general revenues to reduce the deficit. Now you say it is a correct move because Harpers gov´t has not put it back. “
1. The so called theft was an accounting issue dealt with very smartly by Martin and avoided the government going to the debt markets to support general revenues. You wouldn't understand that because you are obviously of a socialist mindest. No one was deprived of EI as a result of that. EI is just another tax like GST in effect and I see no reaon for thsoe funds to be held in separate accounts when there is national debt to pay down. Then again you won't get it.
……………………………
“We grudgingly accept that there will be no real justice for the $100 million dollars the federal Liberal Party, in brazen outright corruption, papered favoured Quebec political ridings, advertising agencies and pet Liberals with in brown paper bags

1. There were no Liberal MP's ever charged and knowing how revengful and distasteful this current government is they would have searched high and low for more dirt. The way Harper treats Civil servants you might see a worse scandal in this government sooner or later.
2. Harper took $1BB of OUR money and handed it to Charest just before his election in 2007 who in turn used it to give all quebeckers a tax cut. That was the real robbery.
…………………………………………….
“One is still relieved that the Liberals shameless myopia almost cause Quebec to actually separate from Canada”
1. the biggest cause of quebec's near separation was the Meech lake disaster. Mulroney played a crap shoot and lost. The result was the Bloc Quebecois that haunts us still.
2. The Liberals actually passed the one law that makes it almost impossible for them to separate and that was the clarity act pushed forth by Stephane Dion.
…………………………………
Thank you for allowing me to further villify the party that has only been in government for about 12 of the last 46 years during which Canada became the best Country in the world. In fact it only took those 12 years in total to create most of our recent national debt surge, reduced the progressive Conservatives to 2 seats and forced them to merge with right wing zealots who are clearly wrong for Canada as it will be shown in the next few months.

Liz J hysterical, I agree with your snyopsis of that family. But, please tell me where the selection of who is Canadian and who isn't stops. That is the main point in this discussion not the criminals tatus of Khadr. Maybe you would like it if mass murderers here in Canadian prisons, all Canadians, were shipped to some gulag in Siberia. That, once again shows your absolute and typical ignorance of the actual situation.

Your nasty Tory comments about Chretien are all BS. If Khadr was subsequently charged with murder after the fact, our government only had the repsonsibility ro ensure he received a fair trial. The US has spent millions to date providing him with legal support since 2003.

Of course your selective memory or copying needs to be challenged, so, from the same essay:
” The most significant early measure was the 1973 indexation of the personal income tax system, adjusting both personal exemptions and tax brackets each year to keep pace with increases in the consumer price index. By and large, this was good public policy: Failure to index the system had exposed taxpayers to “bracket creep” as inflation mounted in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In effect, this allowed the government to raise taxes without seeking Parliament's authority. Yet if indexation was a praiseworthy move, it was no less costly: a Finance Department study put the revenue loss in 1979 alone at $6-billion, or about one-third of personal income tax revenues in that year.
Other tax measures introduced around the same time included the three personal income tax cuts enacted from 1973 through 1975, increases in personal and employment expense deductions, the $1000 interest income deduction, and the investment tax credit. Then there was the $1000 deduction for pension income, the radical expansion of the Registered Retirement Savings Plan program in 1972, and the Registered Home Ownership Savings Plan (RHOSP). Most important of all was the 1978 Child Tax Credit, providing parents with a basic payment of $200 per child per year. If not quite a guaranteed annual income, it had much in it that resembled its close relative, the negative income tax: the benefit was delivered through the tax system, a first in Canada, and varied with family income. This was much in keeping with the bureaucratic preference for the “building blocks” approach to income security over a full-blown GAI. Just as the Guaranteed Income Supplement added an income-tested boost to the universal Old Age Security program, the child tax credit now did the same for family allowances. (In recent years, these two-headed programs have been rationalized into, respectively, the Seniors' Benefit and Child Tax Benefit.)”

I would ask the troy troubador Gabby to suggest which of the programs have the Tories killed off. The answer is none and in fact Harpo has copied Trudeau by creating the TFSA program. Harpos deficits are growing faster than any of Trudeau's although it is too early to ratify that.

In his essay Coyne does not get into population demographics, such as the numbers of young people entering the work force and/or advanced education or the growth in infrastructure needs that preceeded the government's ability to collect taxes because of the baby boom.

In closing here is another pice from that same essay:
“Canada is certainly a more Just Society than it was when Trudeau made his pledge: there is less poverty; more go on to higher education; medical insurance is universal. “

I think that speaks for itself as to his legacy.

Too bad you didn't copy the full ending paragraph. I think that speaks to YOUR truthiness rather than to my “selective memory or copying.”
“Canada is certainly a more Just Society than it was when Trudeau made his pledge: there is less poverty; more go on to higher education; medical insurance is universal. But, thirty years and half a trillion dollars in debt later, the promise is unfulfilled.“

And that ending paragraph was Coyne's way of reaffirming the POV he advanced in the opening paragraph, which reads:
“For a prime minister first elected on the promise of The Just Society, Pierre Trudeau's legacy in the field of social policy is surprisingly modest. The ninefold increase in federal spending he oversaw between 1968 and 1984 might be expected to have purchased some comparable advance in social justice. Yet the social policy achievements of the four governments he led can only be described as piecemeal.“

So keep nurturing your paranoia about PM Harper and the Conservatives, and keep up the torrent of coarse epithets. You learned those tactics at the Laurier Club? How urbane of you! How classy!

Hmmm, I don't recall those double digits happening the Mulroney years. But, hey, I'm not Liberal so my vision is actually clear.

Maybe most of them don't know about the designation of “child soldier” among them the glorified Liberal Senator Romeo Dallaire who has declared him to have been exactly that. It's very convenient for them to have his expert opinion to feed their agenda on this matter. What's really not making any sense is who are they playing to beyond the extreme Left who lack all capacity for reasoned thought? How many Khadr sympathizers are there in Toronto to net them many votes?

Terry your unmitigated Liberal bias is really astounding. First it was the Great PET that divided east and west. The introduction of the disastrous National Energy Policy (NEP): That devastated the Oil Industry in Western Canada, I know because my job was in that industry.

Second the Mortgage interest rate during the Trudeau years was around 18% and people lost their homes ,

Third 80% of the national debt was the direct responsibility of PET which Brian Mulroney inherited that is why he introduced the GST which was to pay down that debt. By the way John Turner and Jean Chretien both campaigned against that tax and said that they would get rid of it, this was back in 1988 election and again in the 1994 election. It was the Liberals under JC that tightened the rules on EI making it harder for umemployed workers to collect; it was the Liberals that took the EI fund, put it in to general revenues to be used as they desired. It was the Liberals that put Canadian forces into Afghanistan without debate in Parliament and with shoddy equipment. It was the Liberals that put a contingent of Canadian forces into Iraq under the watch of John McCallum the Defense Minister at the time. All the time Chretien was telling the Canadian public how he stood up to Bush.

It was the Liberals that introduce the anti-terrorist act under which Khadr was detained, and the Liberals did nothing about Khadr.

OK … what the heck happened?

I logged in to your site, saw the instruction “view comments” instead of the usual number, clicked on it, and saw all the comments in a different font, listed in chronological order with dates and times of posting.

I posted a comment congratulating you on the new look, clicked on “post comment” and waited for the comment to show.
What did I see?
The old format.

What happened?

Gabby: well said, Terry needs to think a bit, the reason that Chretien had three majority governments in th 90's was due to the Canadian Alliance and the old PC party splitting the right of center vote; With the unification of these two parties, Mr Harper has eliminated that split; that is one reason that the current liberal party constantly tries to drive a wedge between the old PC members and the Reformers as Terry calls them: Hence you get certain conservatives like Scott Brison, Belinda Stronach & David Orchard Keith Martin crossing the floor. While the two Conservative Parties united, the liberal parties is trying to move more into NDP territory with bring memebers like Bob Rae and Ujjal Dosanjh. This has caused the Liberals to lose the center/center right to Mr. Harper

Hi Gabby great reporting, there is nothing left to be said. Thanks

Terry we cannot pick and choose who we allow to keep our passports, but when a new immigrant takes the oath of allegiance before a citizenship judge, he or she agrees to abide by the laws and rights of Canada, and if that person contravenes those laws or rights, he or she should not be allowed to retain that citizenship. I know, because I came to Canada because of the life that Canada could offer to me, Liberty, justice and democracy. THese are unalienable rights and should not be abused.

Rich, the only reason Harpo won anything was because of adscam and the Libs lost votes in quebec. The split on the left continues also therefore allowing harpo to win minority status.

This country was not managed by Liberals for 34 out of the last 46 years because they were bad managers. The reformatories have done their damage to the country's morale and its time fr the Libs to take it back and rebuild that self confidence.

Iggy is not running on the left. His statements so far are all to the center of the spectrum to halt Harpos efforts there. He has his left wing that will continue to harvest votes on that side as well and.that appears to be paying off also.

And don't kid yourself the progressives have knives out for Harpo and will get him sooner than later as they want control of their party back after McKay's betrayal.

If Mulroney was PM in 1984 than interest rates were at 10% and higher. Mortgages were still going for around 12% in 85. Worldwide inflation did not die down until a couple of years later.

When Coyne becomes known as an historian we will believe his newspaper talents. In the meantime there have been other much more flattering writings about PET and he remains the most popular former PM in the public's eye.

Rich, I don't disagree with your comment but the law of the land does not say that someone can lose their citizenship becauee of criminal activity. We have a duty to understand what being a Canadian is and if its used to create chaos then maybe a new rule needs to be in place.

Stephen!

Congratulations on your new cleaner, crisper, and chronologically updated look.

I hate to gush but … I really, really like it.

Another day, more rationale from Terry of why Canadians have to accept extreme Liberal views as 'Canadian'.

B&P….maybe if you got off your ar$e instead of collecting harpos welfare you might understand some of this stuff.

Terry – it just speaks to priorities and is one of many reasons why Canadians have overwhelmingly REJECTED the Liberal$ and their agenda the last two elections.

Our PM is worried about getting our economy moving – not about Omar Khadir.

Paul Martin was on record listing dozens of things as 'priorities' during his time as PM. No doubt this would be another if the Liberal$ were in power.

B&P………”Overwhelmingly rejected”

Wow………Harpo barely squeeked by in the first election and he still has a minority and is not in the lead right now. Give your head a shake. 65% of all canadians reject Harpo. Remember that fact beczuse it will grow to 75% by the next election.

Terry – MILLIONS fewer Canadians voted Liberal last election relative to previous elections. Harper's margin of victory over the Liberal$ was more than 3 TIMES greater than Obama's over McCain.

Wrong. Sixty-five percent of those eligible voters who bothered to vote did not vote Conservative. How in the world can you say that 65% of all voters rejected Mr. Harper? As far as I know, people under 18 cannot vote so there goes your 65% right off the bat. As for the people who did vote, only a small percentage actually voted.

Now, are you saying that people who checked off Liberal, for example, were not actually voting FOR the Liberals but, instead, AGAINST Mr. Harper. I don't think so, Terry.

Your comment is foolish and incredibly incorrect. Sixty-five percent of all Canadians – good Lord, that is the stupidest thing you've ever written and, given how stupid your comments are…

E of E….the foolish one here is you. Face facts Canadians do not like the right wing as espoused by Harpo. The rest of your stuff is simply hysterical rambling.

Two wrongs don't make it right East. The Liberals are not the ones in power now so where the hell are theReformed Cons on this matter. Right the wrongs that were done in the past and for gods sake, if the cons want credibility they need to grow up and quit blaming the past for their own short comings and start doing something to correct those wrongs. The Reform/Cons would do a lot more to gain respect if they quit stalling and fix the problem instead of contributing to it. Is that to musch to expect? Simple matter, simple solutions. Fix it darn it.

Bugszy, asking reformatories to do something other dither and hope another election doesn't happen soon is too much for this bankrupt group.

Terry nice try but a little over the top, 65% of all Canadians did not support Mr Harper well please tell me how many Canadians actually supported Paul Martin in the Conservatives first election and how many supported Stephane Dion in Mr Harper' s second election. Remember Paul Martin inherited a majority government from Chretien and in his first election he reduce that to a minority government that lasted one year and Martin was relegated to the opposition benches. Next election the Liberals where lead by Stephane Dion (father of the Clarity act) and further reduced the Liberals to 77 seats the lowest showing for a Liberal party. The reason Mr Harper did not get a majority was because of the Bloc in Quebec and artists complaining about a funding cut of 45 million from a budget of 1 billion dollars. The Bloc will also hurt the Liberal Party in Quebec.

How can you justify making the statement that 65% of Canadians did not vote Conservative when the entire voter turn out for the last election was only 59%. It is not the Prime Minister fault if the Canadian public chose not to exercise the given right to vote.

secondly Stephane Dion did not even receive less than 50% of the vote in his riding alone, not to mention that the Liberal vote dropped to about 25% so by your calculations 75% Canadians did not vote Liberal.

As for Mr Harper losing support, where is Mr Ignatieff, what are his policies?

We can all recall the sight of a desperate, frenetic P Martin crossing the country spreading lies about Stephen Harper. In the dying days of the campaign he had the gall to say Stephen Harper didn't have Canadian values, implying only Liberals hold Canadian values. He wrongly thought the people of Canada would swallow that one, it was possibly the last straw for many, they caught on to his game of spreading lies. He had all the finesse of the quintessential snake oil salesman, booming voice, aid for all, the Natives, Health care, child care, seniors, immigrants and on and on. Just a little too good to be true as in, we've heard it all before.

Martin was the architect of his own demise. He spent about a decade coveting the top job and plotting how he would get rid of Wile E. Coyote instead of paying attention to what was going on in the wider scope of things. It was all about himself. Wile E. stepped aside,pushed out, whatever, after he did his little thing on party funding, Martin got his wish for power then had no idea what to do with it. He was a disaster. They got Dion, a disaster. They now are about to repeat with a third disaster as the cards are being played out now. None of the old stalwarts of any significance are coming forward to be part of this agony of defeat.

The best they have is really down to “Shit from Hell” emanating from a war room somewhere.

Sure, this is OT, but that's what happens when trolls have nothing better to do than park their arses here and take over with insults.

Terry – actually those are not the facts at all. The facts are:

- 37% of voters voted conservative last election

- Conservatives are currently leading in BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario. (EKOS – July 12)

- MILLIONS fewer voters cast a vote for the Liberal$ last election

Maybe check out the definition of 'fact' before you attach this word to 'Terry's Opinion'.

Otherwise, don't be surprised when you don't get a response

We should also remember the guts of the “Clarity Act” came from Preston Manning and Stephen Harper. Dion and the Liberals did a little tinkering with it and claimed it as their own. So damned typical of the Liberals, they steal ideas and give no attribution.

Excellent synopsis Lizj. Odd that terry-1 would use the ridiculous old NDP saw that 60 some percent of Canadians did not vote for the Conservatives. In using that thinking, the greater blasphemy would be not mentioning that Chretien, in receiving his huge majority, only garnered 37.5% of the votes across Canada. Hence a majority gained with over 62% of Canadians (voters actually) NOT voting for the Liberals. But for terrytune the math is Liberal math. The Liberals were ensured their victories at a time when the conservative movement was fragmented and in a reorganizing and renewal process. This was after conservatives, NOT just liberals decisively voted out Mulroney/Campbell. Under no circumstance would a Liberal do such a thing to their own politicians. So Conservatives then began the process of rebuilding their policies and programs, a need unseen by old school Liberals. Conservatives will vote out their own if necessary and seek renewal while Liberals fail to see their own faults and under no circumstances would they punish their own, just keep holding your nose, put on the blindfold and vote for the same Liberals. It would be sad if it were not so pathetic.

Yeah, Conservatives will vote out their own if necessary, we've proven that one. We have principles that trump power. The Liberals are willing to foist anything on the people to seize power,it's all about themselves in the trough, not what they can do for the good of the Country. For proof of that we need only go back to recent history and the coalition of the desperate.

It remains to be seen how long they can count on brain free voting as has been the norm in, for instance, Toronto, for too long fueled by fear mongering with outright lies.

the reformatories won 37% of the lowest turnout in federal election history. people simply sat on their hands rather than vote for either party including over 800,000 liberal voters which is why we now have a winnable leader in Iggy. The party got the message loud and clear that people didn't want Harpo but wanted the Liberals to upgrade their leadership which has been done.

LIZ J Hysterical…wasn't Manning paid by the people of Canada and was he not a sitting MP.

The guts of the clarity act was Dion staring down the separatists who are in Ottawa thanks to the failed Meech Lake deal of Muldoon. That should never have happened.

Your history is tainted just like your party's.

Liz J hysterical……….the liberals are the only party that goes back to confederation. Your tainted party is not conservative,they stole the name, and is run by a bunch of red neck right wing nut bars. they should have kept their first acronym…..CRAP.

Gaby , I see more into it. To me it appears that Obama, is simply trying to placate the masses. It is easy to make promises in an election campaign, but it is another thing to follow through. We have seen that kind of thing from Chretien every time. Obama promised to close Gitmo, what he did not think about or may be he did not even know ,what to do with all the terrorist. I am no friend of Obama and I don't think Gitmo is going to be closed that soon, no matter what the President says.

East of eden. Do you truly believed Chretien was as dishonest as most of the Libs. Realy,
You can't be serious. Even the Queen now thinks he was God's gift to the World and Canada in particular. As far as I am concerned the Queen killed any desire to maintain the Monarchy in Canada.

Yet with all of that you donate $1100 to a party that props them up. Well done!

Omanator, are you that disappointed the queen didn't choose a crook like Mulroney

Liz J, you're absolutely right. The Clarity Act was based on this private member's bill introduced by MP Stephen Harper:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Quebec_Con…
“Quebec Contingency Act
The Quebec Contingency Act (Bill C-341) was a private member's bill tabled in Canada's federal Parliament in 1996 to establish the conditions which would apply to a referendum regarding the separation of Quebec from Canada. It was a precursor to the Clarity Act of 2000.

Bill C-341 was introduced by future Prime Minister and then-Reform MP Stephen Harper, and reached First Reading on October 30, 1996. Its full title was “An Act to establish the terms and conditions that must apply to a referendum relating to the separation of Quebec from Canada before it may be recognized as a proper expression of the will of the people of Quebec.
Bill C-341 did not proceed any further in Parliament following First Reading.”

As usual, the Liberals are very quick to “appropriate” any good ideas and claim them as their own.

Oh, and something else. Our friend here, who likes to rewrite history, may be shocked to find out that his beloved Liberals started out as the “Reform Party” – which he is constantly deriding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_movement_(p…)
“By the 1850s, the Reform Party had dissipated: moderate reformers had joined with Tories in 1854 to form a Liberal-Conservative coalition government under the leadership of John A. Macdonald and George-Étienne Cartier. This was the basis of what was to become the Conservative Party.

Left wing Reformers, along with the Clear Grits, promoted electoral reform, and reciprocity with the United States. In 1857, under the leadership of George Brown, the Clear Grits and left wing Reformers formed the Liberal Party in Canada West and, with the Parti rouge and Maritime Liberal parties, formed the basis for the Liberal Party of Canada.”

Who'd have thunk it? The Liberal Party traces back its origin to the Reform Party – not the moderate wing, mind you.

Ah, delicious irony.

David, actually my family including myself donates well over 10K per year. I actually put my money where my mouth is. You obviously onluy contribute sweat equity sinc welfare payments are tough to deduct polticial donations.

Richard the “HER” is really a “HE” which indiactes your chauvinist tory leanings that have women as chattel.

Gabby , aside form your normal tripe its good to see you recognize true reformers as opposed to the make believe ones created by Manning

Gabby, it appears even recent political history is lost on the troll. Assuming he graduated kindergarten by 1996, it's obvious he hasn't studied our political history, if he had, it wouldn't fit in with his agenda here.

Liz J Hysterical……thanks for the compliment. I will repay it in due time.

I think my history lessons were all well understood but I learned them post kindergarten in an unbiased world. Too bad you didn't get the same education.

The most stunning revelation in all of this is the fact that you even have a wife.

David,Coming from an angry reformatory with brains only in the lower posterior I take that as a compliment.

Gabby – great post.

Though not in power for his whole career, Mr Harper and the reform / Conservative party have been responsible for virtually all of the good ideas and policy innovation that we've seen over the past few decades in Canadian politics.

You mentioned the Quebec Contingency Act which the Liberal$ repackaged and rode for miles and miles, but let's also not forget his work in plugging the income trust loophole to ensure Canadian businesses continue to contribute to the tax base, the accountability act which dramatically increased the transparency of government spending and affairs, income splitting for seniors, strengthening our process around the Immigration Review Board, particularily around refugees. He's also done a ton for the taxpayer – whether it's the TFSA, cutting the GST, lowering personal income tax rates, fitness tax credits for children.

When it comes to policy innovation the Liberal$ really have been the laggards and I think it's due to their basic philosophy.

I don't think they spend too much time thinking about the needs of Canadians, but I think they spend a lot of time (and our money) in thinking about furthering the interests of their own party.

I figured you would.

Omanator, re: the closing of Guantanamo. I believe Obama was sincere in wanting to close it, but he may not have had all the information needed when he made his promise. In addition, he may not have anticipated the opposition he would face from individual states that refuse to house those detainees.

My main contention with the Khadr case, in addition to the misclassification of him as a child soldier, is that the US is a democracy where Khadr is undergoing a fair judicial process. I do not think it is the role of the Canadian government to interfere in that process. Once the US courts have handed down a decision, then the Canadian government can decide whether to intervene on Khadr's behalf. But until then, he should remain in the hands of his captors, the US, against whom he committed the alleged crime to begin with.

For my own edification, and to counter the continuing vilification of Conservatives here, be they “old” Conservatives or “new” Conservatives, I compiled a list of Canadian Political Firsts (federally):
1. Year that women won the right to vote in federal elections: 1918 (under Conservative PM Robert Borden)

2. First female Prime Minister: Kim Campbell Progressive Conservative Prime Minister 1993
First female federal Justice Minister (Attorney General): Kim Campbell (Progressive Conservative)
First female Defence Minister: Kim Campbell, (Progressive Conservative)

3. First woman in federal cabinet: Federal: Ellen Fairclough 1957, Progressive Conservative (under Progressive Conservative PM John Diefenbaker)

4. First Aboriginal Canadian Senator in Canada: James Gladstone, appointed to the Senate by Progressive Conservative Prime Minister John Diefenbaker in 1958.

5. First Black elected to the House of Commons: Rt. Hon Lincoln Alexander – Hamilton West, Progressive Conservative MP 1968-1984.
First African-Canadian Lieutenant Governor: Rt. Hon Lincoln Alexander Lt. Governor of Ontario, 1985-1991.

6. First Chinese Canadian elected in Canada: Douglas Jung, Vancouver Centre, Progressive Conservative MP, 1957-1962.

7. First Czech Canadian elected to the House of Commons: Otto Jelinek PC MP 1972-1979 High Park-Humber Valley, 1979-1993 Halton.

8. First Greek Canadian elected to the House of Commons: Gus Mitges, Progressive Conservative MP, Grey—Simcoe 1972-1993

9. First Japanese Canadian elected to the House of Commons: Bev Oda, Conservative MP, Clarington—Scugog—Uxbridge, 2004-present.

10. First Korean Canadian Senator: Yonah Martin (Kim), Conservative Senator, 2009 – present.

11. One of the first Punjabi women elected in Canada: Nina Grewal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, Conservative MP 2004 to present.

12. First Ukrainian Canadian Governor General of Canada: Ray Hnatyshyn, appointed on 14 December 1989 by PM Brian Mulroney, PC.

Those firsts put the lie to the accusations that Conservatives are anti-women, anti-ethnic, anti-immigrant, blah blah blah.

Beer and Popcorn, you mentioned the measures the Conservatives have been able to introduce in the short time they've been in office, despite the fact they've been in a minority position.

Of course, like any other politicians, the Conservatives are not perfect, but I do trust them to act with the best interests of Canada in mind.

I also appreciate that they respect the sovereignty of our friend and ally, the US, in reviewing the cases of Guantanamo detainees and following the appropriate procedures in a manner consistent with the law.

I notice you didn't mention their homophobia.

b&p….you see to have forgotten the huge deficit we now have because the reformatories cut a consumption tax and gave out B & P money to upper middle class families a complete and useless waste of our money.

I don't think they get it. It's the socialists and left leaning that kill their own. Nearly all of the genocide that has occurred is carried out by the left. Disguised as great champions of the various minorities, they are none other than “wanna be slave owners”. Y'know, the classic, I'm not a racist, I even have a friend that is one of them.

Gimme a break. The Conservatives are the best thing that has happened to Canada in 100 years.

Patsplace…..where do you get that nonsense? Most genocide is as a result of right wing conservative religious nutbars. look at the Irish situation over the years. look at the Israeli palestinian stuff. Look at the muslim christian genocides. Give your head a shake. None of those wars/genocides have anythig to do with left leaning or socialists.

I repeat one fact. The Liberals have ruled two out of every three years over the last 46 in this country. 34 out the last 46 years and have given us medicare, RRSP's, a constitution, budget surpluses, lower taxes, the auto pact which became NAFTA, criminal laws that have produced the highest crime reduction rates in the western world. They are overwhelmingly in charge of the US government apparatus after the right wing Bush fiasco which Harpo is repeating here.

Stop being so delusional.

Gaby. I agree, that Obama was probably sincere in his wish to close Gitmo.
I also think that he did not have all the facts. However this shows a
weakness. A future President should not make promises of this magnitute
without beeing fully informed about the consequences.
As far as Khadar is concerened I agree with Steven Harper that the US
Justice system should run its full course before we as a country take any
action. It appears that this was also the position of the Liberal
Governments. Of couse now it its convenient for them to claim otherwise.
Where I think we fell short is the fact that the misclassification of Omar
Khadar as a child soldier should have been much more publicized. One can
hardly blame the public for assuming he was a child soldier, because of his
age, without knowing all the other facts. Again the failure of our media to
report the facts without spin plays a major role.

Typical reformatory stupidity:
http://embassymag.ca/page/view/political_interf…
Jason Kenney has compromised his position as immigration minister by repeatedly slamming the validity of various refugee claims and blatantly undermining the independence of Canada's refugee tribunal, legal and immigration experts, including former IRB chairman Peter Showler, are charging.

Over the past several months, Mr. Kenney has publicly declared asylum claims by U.S. war deserters to be “bogus,” accused would-be Mexican refugees of systematically abusing the system, and questioned the legitimacy of refugee claims by Roma from the Czech Republic.

Mr. Kenney has said that the Roma face no state persecution in the Czech Republic—where attacks on their communities by radical groups are said to be on the rise—in spite of the fact that the Immigration and Refugee Board has approved nearly all such claims. In 2008, 94 per cent of Czech Roma claims were accepted, while in the first six months of 2009, 72 of the 90 cases heard were accepted.

“There are a lot of concerns here,” said Toronto immigration lawyer Max Berger. “The minister has to strike a delicate balance, on the one hand preserving the integrity of our refugee program, and on the other hand not making public pronouncements that could be seen as political interference in the operation of his own refugee board.”

OManator, the problem being hightlighted is the fact that after 8 long years in Gitmo Khadr has yet to be found guilty. That's your take on fair justice I presume. In a civilized society we are guaranteed right to a fair and timely trial. You don't get it as usual.

Yet again you complain but support a party that keeps them in power. For almost four years the Libs have made sure Flaherty's budgets have passed. The complaining should not really be directed at the gov't but rather those who allow them to govern.

Genocide has been going on for 1000's of years. They have gone on long before democracies were invented. It is not a left/right issue.

Europe is currently filled with xenophobia.

There is far more tolerance in Canada for minorities than anywhere else on Earth. I suspect even Ignatieff would agree with me. That is assuming anyone could find him to ask.

National Socialist Democratic Party (NAZI), Chairman Mao, Stalin, Cambodia….to name a few. Mind you, they were all done for the good of the State so I guess that make this Leftist track record of genocide acceptable.

Cherry picking is good for cherries but terrible for a political track record. Major theft of tax payer funds, refusal to interfere in terrorist fund raising, sending Canadian troops into action without the right equipment, gutting UIC and calling it a budget balancing government. I could go on but I have to work.

And while on the topic of delusion, have you ever heard of the Bush Derangement Syndrome? Both BDS and the mental illness of what ” should be” is in fact reality, commonly called Liberalism, are real, communicable and viewable in a variety of places.

Now you have a nice day.

Patsplace, there is adifference between socialism and tryanny that uses socialism or comunism as its front. You, would know that I presume but possibly net being a reformatory type.

I have heard of the bush derangement syndrom…Harpo caught it and passed it on to Flatulence so that we now have a government that has no economic program that makes any sense.

Liberalism is true freedom not state imposed rules that suit a minority as the Harpercrites and the Bushies tried.

Any attempt to have an adult conversation with one who resorts to lacing comments with juvenile retorts and name calling is futile, a waste of effort.

Here's the good news we can all cheer about: The Bank of Canada has declared the recession essentially over in Canada! Not good news for those who were poised to make political hay with tough economic times, those with whom political gain trumps the good of the country, power above all. They'll have to hunker down in their tents , search for faux scandals and reprogram their straw man.

Like I said, the mental illness, that is well documented, liberalism, where the individual believes that reality is what “should be” not what is, is real and evident in the world today.

BDS is another well documented illness where all roads lead to Bush and all roads that lead to him are bad. Reality indicates that GW has done more for Africans than any human in history and has mobilized the world to stop the Islamist menace.

Liberalism is, as is currently displayed by you and others of your ilk, a repressive and totalitarian system that rewards the chosen supporters of such repression and attacks all those not aligned.

There is an enemy to freedom, make sure it's not you.

That is assuming they can find him….

We were told that if EI was not reformed about 5-6 weeks ago children would starve. Now these same people are hiding.

The record low interest rates have helped no doubt. I wonder if some people want to return to the good Trudeau years. You remember; 22% mortgage rates? Any takers.

Good news indeed, for most of us anyways.

Gaby/ Amen to your post in particular the last part, the Entitlement crowd.

Liz I have said so before ignore his stupidity. I no longer waste my time replying to his ilk.

“This finding strengthens the case for bringing Mr. Khadr home and calls for stronger government oversight on how CSIS conducts its business.”

CSIS is our intelligence agency…. what they did does not require a knee-jerk over-reaction of placing new government oversight(s)…. especially if implemented by anyone involved with the Liberal Party.

Not only that, but as soon as you let the bleeding hearts over politicize CSIS and demand for such things– the sooner our country's capacity to protect itself becomes hindered and all the more vulnerable.

taylor, you may recall it was the chretien Liberals who let CSIS do their thing on Khadr and the other guy in Syria w/o that oversight. So what is it you are really saying?

terry1,

What you never seem to get is that each policy has various aspects to them that can be from multiple sides of the spectrum while on different planes (or panes? idk the word.).
Including the degrees of intensity.

For example, one policy may be more economically Conservative while more socially Libertarian or even Liberal.

Or another may be more Populist in its agenda/expediency but more Libertarian in its actual implementation.

I may be more Socially Conservative with some aspects of an issue (personally) but when it comes to how that issue effects others, I may be more Libertarian.

Thats how centrist parties work usually regardless of wether they have more Left or Right preferences so long as those preferences are moderate or the fringe bits are only at a personal level and never meant for any implementation. As all perspectives ought to be voiced but not necessarily acted upon.

They're not solely making their decisions solely based off of their own personal ideology or set of living principles, but are taking into consideration the perspectives of others and how things will ripple affect both for and against various groups, sectors or individuals. Get it?

That isn't to say they are fence sitters but that they don't allow themselves to be pushed around by popular thought or group think and decide to go against the grain (sometimes even within themselves) for the sake of what is rational and right. [no pun intended]

As it stands. The Conservative Party of Canada is a centrist party made up of mostly moderates from all sides of their side of the political spectrum including varying degrees of Populism and Libertarianism's. For example, It is also possible to be a moderate Conservative and have some mild left-leaning principles or policy ideas so long as they aren't radical.

That isn't to say someone can't have radical ideas or bold new concepts for dealing with a given situation but that they can't try to expect those such ideas to be implemented without a full and open debate on the subject so that all possibilities are thought out and alternate ideas and perspectives are churned out properly. With a companying constructively critiques back and forth and so on.

P.S>

The BRITISH NATIONALIST PARTY is a LEFT WING PARTY despite having some RADICAL RIGHT WING SOCIAL POLICIES/ASPECTS WEDDED INTO THEIR PLATFORM and etc.*

Being a right-wing party doesn't automatically associate you with all things bad on that side of the political spectrum as certain groups from other sides would lead people to believe.

The right way to deal with parties like that is through meaningful and constructive debate rather then simply brow beating them to death with placards and anti-racism slogans.

Which is rather simplistic and mindless and does little to turn the they disagree with away from racist or discriminatory thinking or actions. Just makes them feel persecuted for their thoughts especially when they aren't even permitted the HUMAN RIGHT to explain their case, be it right or wrong they should still be aloud to speak and we should FREELY not mindlessly be allowed to disagree with them and hopefully be able to correct them where they are wrong in the process.

People shouldn't use populist tactics to dumb down the debate as some left-wing front groups over there are purposely doing so that people won't realize just how similar they are in most other policies to their own favored politicians and/or parties they support.

It's like the politically correct closet racists shouting down and out the more openly racist rather then actually dealing with the issue in a civil and sensible manner. Especially in Britain of all places, the birthplace of modern civility.
[Despite some of their problems or history {like any nation}, there are primes and aspects of their culture that define it as such, even still.]

*by the way, I hadn't fully looked into wether the BNP were actually racist/discriminatory or wether they just saw themselves as pro-british citizen**, but rather have carelessly relied on second hand information.

That being the case shouldn't take away from the point I was making on how to go about addressing such things properly.

** Pro-British citizen in the sense that they put preference of their taxpaying citizenry over that or nationals from other countries who immigrate there with intention of imposing their cultural beliefs on others who otherwise prefer to live according to their own free will. ***

*** Not sure if they meant it like that either. I'll have to look into that.

“This finding strengthens the case for bringing Mr. Khadr home and calls for stronger government oversight on how CSIS conducts its business.”

CSIS is our intelligence agency…. what they did does not require a knee-jerk over-reaction of placing new government oversight(s)…. especially if implemented by anyone involved with the Liberal Party.

Not only that, but as soon as you let the bleeding hearts over politicize CSIS and demand for such things– the sooner our country's capacity to protect itself becomes hindered and all the more vulnerable.

taylor, you may recall it was the chretien Liberals who let CSIS do their thing on Khadr and the other guy in Syria w/o that oversight. So what is it you are really saying?

terry1,

What you never seem to get is that each policy has various aspects to them that can be from multiple sides of the spectrum while on different planes (or panes? idk the word.).
Including the degrees of intensity.

For example, one policy may be more economically Conservative while more socially Libertarian or even Liberal.

Or another may be more Populist in its agenda/expediency but more Libertarian in its actual implementation.

I may be more Socially Conservative with some aspects of an issue (personally) but when it comes to how that issue effects others, I may be more Libertarian.

Thats how centrist parties work usually regardless of wether they have more Left or Right preferences so long as those preferences are moderate or the fringe bits are only at a personal level and never meant for any implementation. As all perspectives ought to be voiced but not necessarily acted upon.

They're not solely making their decisions solely based off of their own personal ideology or set of living principles, but are taking into consideration the perspectives of others and how things will ripple affect both for and against various groups, sectors or individuals. Get it?

That isn't to say they are fence sitters but that they don't allow themselves to be pushed around by popular thought or group think and decide to go against the grain (sometimes even within themselves) for the sake of what is rational and right. [no pun intended]

As it stands. The Conservative Party of Canada is a centrist party made up of mostly moderates from all sides of their side of the political spectrum including varying degrees of Populism and Libertarianism's. For example, It is also possible to be a moderate Conservative and have some mild left-leaning principles or policy ideas so long as they aren't radical.

That isn't to say someone can't have radical ideas or bold new concepts for dealing with a given situation but that they can't try to expect those such ideas to be implemented without a full and open debate on the subject so that all possibilities are thought out and alternate ideas and perspectives are churned out properly. With a companying constructively critiques back and forth and so on.

P.S>

The BRITISH NATIONALIST PARTY is a LEFT WING PARTY despite having some RADICAL RIGHT WING SOCIAL POLICIES/ASPECTS WEDDED INTO THEIR PLATFORM and etc.*

Being a right-wing party doesn't automatically associate you with all things bad on that side of the political spectrum as certain groups from other sides would lead people to believe.

The right way to deal with parties like that is through meaningful and constructive debate rather then simply brow beating them to death with placards and anti-racism slogans.

Which is rather simplistic and mindless and does little to turn the they disagree with away from racist or discriminatory thinking or actions. Just makes them feel persecuted for their thoughts especially when they aren't even permitted the HUMAN RIGHT to explain their case, be it right or wrong they should still be aloud to speak and we should FREELY not mindlessly be allowed to disagree with them and hopefully be able to correct them where they are wrong in the process.

People shouldn't use populist tactics to dumb down the debate as some left-wing front groups over there are purposely doing so that people won't realize just how similar they are in most other policies to their own favored politicians and/or parties they support.

It's like the politically correct closet racists shouting down and out the more openly racist rather then actually dealing with the issue in a civil and sensible manner. Especially in Britain of all places, the birthplace of modern civility.
[Despite some of their problems or history {like any nation}, there are primes and aspects of their culture that define it as such, even still.]

*by the way, I hadn't fully looked into wether the BNP were actually racist/discriminatory or wether they just saw themselves as pro-british citizen**, but rather have carelessly relied on second hand information.

That being the case shouldn't take away from the point I was making on how to go about addressing such things properly.

** Pro-British citizen in the sense that they put preference of their taxpaying citizenry over that or nationals from other countries who immigrate there with intention of imposing their cultural beliefs on others who otherwise prefer to live according to their own free will. ***

*** Not sure if they meant it like that either. I'll have to look into that.