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	<title>Comments on: Flaherty to end campaign welfare</title>
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		<title>By: Amy - Familienrecht </title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-2/#comment-3578</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy - Familienrecht </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-3578</guid>
		<description>There is no wonder that conservatives are holding the very first place in this impromptu &quot;pop chart&quot;, because, you know, in its etymology they have some relations with tin cans and all their preservatives properties. So they are maybe the hottest upcoming properties on the horizon…  as The New Language of Politics used to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no wonder that conservatives are holding the very first place in this impromptu &#8220;pop chart&#8221;, because, you know, in its etymology they have some relations with tin cans and all their preservatives properties. So they are maybe the hottest upcoming properties on the horizon…  as The New Language of Politics used to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-2/#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-3238</guid>
		<description>I think it was a posting by Robert McClelland that said Lib-Bloc-NDP would form a coalition, as much as I hate the sound of it, he was right....but I do question the logic here......why not move the choice to the Income tax return and let me decide if I want my 1.95 per year going to a political party. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also if this was the case why not bring in a law like Austrialia has and fine people that don&#039;t vote 100 dollars. Those that don&#039;t vote (the 100) would go in a kitty and be split amoungst all partys equally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was a posting by Robert McClelland that said Lib-Bloc-NDP would form a coalition, as much as I hate the sound of it, he was right&#8230;.but I do question the logic here&#8230;&#8230;why not move the choice to the Income tax return and let me decide if I want my 1.95 per year going to a political party. </p>
<p>Also if this was the case why not bring in a law like Austrialia has and fine people that don&#39;t vote 100 dollars. Those that don&#39;t vote (the 100) would go in a kitty and be split amoungst all partys equally.</p>
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		<title>By: kenboldt</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-2/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator>kenboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2894</guid>
		<description>this is a garbage move.  Many voters are not in a financial position to drop big money to support the party of their choice, however they do have the ability to vote for the party of their choice.  This &quot;welfare&quot; as you call it helps to reduce strategic voting and allows voters to truly have a voice and vote for the party that they really support because they know that they will benefit financially from the vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is a garbage move.  Many voters are not in a financial position to drop big money to support the party of their choice, however they do have the ability to vote for the party of their choice.  This &#8220;welfare&#8221; as you call it helps to reduce strategic voting and allows voters to truly have a voice and vote for the party that they really support because they know that they will benefit financially from the vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd in Ottawa</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-2/#comment-2861</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd in Ottawa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2861</guid>
		<description>This subsidy was put in place in 2004 by the Chretien led Liberals, who had a majority at the time. It was put in for one reason: The Liberals knew that Adscam would cause them to lose massive amounts of funding from donors, not to mention the massive amounts of funding from the Adscam-type deals themselves. How rotten is that? Now the Convervatives are being viciously attacked on all sides for wanting to remove the subsidy. How rotten is that?? I don&#039;t blame the NDP, Greens and Bloc for squawking about this, however the Liberal leadership should be ashamed of themselves. Again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This subsidy was put in place in 2004 by the Chretien led Liberals, who had a majority at the time. It was put in for one reason: The Liberals knew that Adscam would cause them to lose massive amounts of funding from donors, not to mention the massive amounts of funding from the Adscam-type deals themselves. How rotten is that? Now the Convervatives are being viciously attacked on all sides for wanting to remove the subsidy. How rotten is that?? I don&#39;t blame the NDP, Greens and Bloc for squawking about this, however the Liberal leadership should be ashamed of themselves. Again.</p>
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		<title>By: BBS</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-2/#comment-2844</link>
		<dc:creator>BBS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2844</guid>
		<description>With all the predictions of the end of democracy in Canada without taxpayer subsidies how is it that the majority of Municipal candidates in Ontario manage to fundraise and run campaigns without any assistance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all the predictions of the end of democracy in Canada without taxpayer subsidies how is it that the majority of Municipal candidates in Ontario manage to fundraise and run campaigns without any assistance?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-1/#comment-2843</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 04:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2843</guid>
		<description>Approve&lt;br&gt;Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Approve<br />Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network</p>
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		<title>By: Gabby in QC</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-1/#comment-2842</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabby in QC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2842</guid>
		<description>This reply of mine to Mike seems to have gone astray. I don&#039;t know what happened to it ...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mike, thank you for your response.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;1. Remove the restriction on individual amounts. What business is it of the government how much I wish to donate to any party?&quot;&lt;br&gt;I am assuming by your posts that you hold &quot;progressive&quot; views (with a dash of libertarian attitude). I am thus surprised that you would not object to millionaires (yes, despite the economic situation, they still walk, or should I say ride, among us) being able to contribute a great deal of money to fund a political party or a candidate. Can you say &quot;possibility of influence peddling&quot;? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;2. Remove the ban on corporate, union and third party donations.&quot;&lt;br&gt;Your entire argument re: people now being &quot;disbarred from voting&quot; falls on this point. &lt;br&gt;I used to belong to a union here in Quebec that usually chose to support the Parti Quebecois.&lt;br&gt;• I was not given the option whether to belong to that union or not &lt;br&gt;• I was not given the option whether to pay the union dues or not  &lt;br&gt;• I was not given the option whether to allow the union to speak on my behalf by supporting, via my union dues, a political party I did not personally support.  &lt;br&gt;How is that system more democratic than the present system, in which union and corporate donations are banned? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;If I don&#039;t like what these organizations do, it’s between myself and the organizations, not the business of the government.&quot;&lt;br&gt;Sure, let a simple union member who never took out an active membership card (my way of not complying with the union), dare fight the union by myself. Does the word &quot;blacklist&quot; mean anything to you?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;3. Drop the tax credit for political donations.&quot;&lt;br&gt;I would have agreed with you on that until I read this part: &lt;br&gt;&quot;Why isn&#039;t Jim Flaherty proposing all of these?&lt;br&gt;Because #1 and #2 would benefit the Liberals and the NDP and #3 would hurt the Conservatives.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What you seem to imply is that the only reason conservatives donate to the Conservative party is because they get a tax credit (not a tax REFUND as my local talk show guy was arguing today).&lt;br&gt;Maybe some do, and others don&#039;t. &lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t claim to know the motivation of my fellow conservatives. &lt;br&gt;But do you have any proof that Liberals and NDPers don&#039;t do the same thing, i.e. contribute only because they know they&#039;ll be getting a tax credit?&lt;br&gt;Or are all Liberal and NDP supporters so pure of heart, not subject to human temptations? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;If Chretien had done this back in 2003 when eh introduced these reforms, you guys would be apoplectic about how terribly unfair it was.&quot;&lt;br&gt;Actually, Chretien introduced new funding laws - no more union and no more corporate donations, and a ceiling of $5400 (initially proposed $10000 for individual donations, if memory serves).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It would be instructive, though, to review what happened when the legislation was first introduced by Chretien in February 2003:&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03march/march03front.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03march/...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br&gt;&quot;... The bill comes as Chretien is in his last year of power, forced to step down after 10 years as prime minister by his party&#039;s own caucus, which by and large supports leadership contender and former finance minister Paul Martin. In the leadership race that is underway, Martin has been criticized for refusing to disclose many of his donors. Many view the legislative initiative as a way for the prime minister to focus attention on this aspect of his long-time rival&#039;s campaign.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;The appearance of this legislation at this time is too driven by internal Liberal politics and needs: the need of the Prime Minister to whitewash various scandals from his record before he retires; the need to deal with his leadership rival within the Liberal Party; and the need to deal with the bank debts of the Liberal Party itself,&quot; says Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Canadian Alliance Party.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While the three other opposition parties agree with the principles of the proposed law, and plan to support it, [then-Opposition Leader] *Harper argues that taxpayers should not be forced to further subsidize political parties.* &quot;When the Liberal public relations rhetoric is set aside, the true nature of the bill is simply the replacement by the government of its addiction to large business and union donations with an addiction to taxpayer funding.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The prime minister will also have to contend with opposition within his own party. Liberal Party President Stephen LeDrew refers to the idea of banning corporate donors as &quot;dumb as a bag of hammers,&quot; and some Liberal members of Parliament agree with this sentiment. But polls show strong public support for the corporate and union donation ban, and Chretien has announced that the vote on the bill will be a confidence vote, meaning that if it fails to pass, the government may fall. As a result, most Liberals are expected to vote in favor of it. ...”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So, is PM Harper now out to annihilate other parties? Or stifle democracy? &lt;br&gt;Nah hah! He was always opposed to taxpayer funding of political parties, even when he was in opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reply of mine to Mike seems to have gone astray. I don&#39;t know what happened to it &#8230;</p>
<p>Mike, thank you for your response.</p>
<p>&#8220;1. Remove the restriction on individual amounts. What business is it of the government how much I wish to donate to any party?&#8221;<br />I am assuming by your posts that you hold &#8220;progressive&#8221; views (with a dash of libertarian attitude). I am thus surprised that you would not object to millionaires (yes, despite the economic situation, they still walk, or should I say ride, among us) being able to contribute a great deal of money to fund a political party or a candidate. Can you say &#8220;possibility of influence peddling&#8221;? </p>
<p>&#8220;2. Remove the ban on corporate, union and third party donations.&#8221;<br />Your entire argument re: people now being &#8220;disbarred from voting&#8221; falls on this point. <br />I used to belong to a union here in Quebec that usually chose to support the Parti Quebecois.<br />• I was not given the option whether to belong to that union or not <br />• I was not given the option whether to pay the union dues or not  <br />• I was not given the option whether to allow the union to speak on my behalf by supporting, via my union dues, a political party I did not personally support.  <br />How is that system more democratic than the present system, in which union and corporate donations are banned? </p>
<p>&#8220;If I don&#39;t like what these organizations do, it’s between myself and the organizations, not the business of the government.&#8221;<br />Sure, let a simple union member who never took out an active membership card (my way of not complying with the union), dare fight the union by myself. Does the word &#8220;blacklist&#8221; mean anything to you?</p>
<p>&#8220;3. Drop the tax credit for political donations.&#8221;<br />I would have agreed with you on that until I read this part: <br />&#8220;Why isn&#39;t Jim Flaherty proposing all of these?<br />Because #1 and #2 would benefit the Liberals and the NDP and #3 would hurt the Conservatives.&#8221;</p>
<p>What you seem to imply is that the only reason conservatives donate to the Conservative party is because they get a tax credit (not a tax REFUND as my local talk show guy was arguing today).<br />Maybe some do, and others don&#39;t. <br />I don&#39;t claim to know the motivation of my fellow conservatives. <br />But do you have any proof that Liberals and NDPers don&#39;t do the same thing, i.e. contribute only because they know they&#39;ll be getting a tax credit?<br />Or are all Liberal and NDP supporters so pure of heart, not subject to human temptations? </p>
<p>&#8220;If Chretien had done this back in 2003 when eh introduced these reforms, you guys would be apoplectic about how terribly unfair it was.&#8221;<br />Actually, Chretien introduced new funding laws &#8211; no more union and no more corporate donations, and a ceiling of $5400 (initially proposed $10000 for individual donations, if memory serves).</p>
<p>It would be instructive, though, to review what happened when the legislation was first introduced by Chretien in February 2003:<br /><a href="http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03march/march03front.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03march/.." rel="nofollow">http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03march/..</a>. <br />&#8220;&#8230; The bill comes as Chretien is in his last year of power, forced to step down after 10 years as prime minister by his party&#39;s own caucus, which by and large supports leadership contender and former finance minister Paul Martin. In the leadership race that is underway, Martin has been criticized for refusing to disclose many of his donors. Many view the legislative initiative as a way for the prime minister to focus attention on this aspect of his long-time rival&#39;s campaign.</p>
<p>&#8220;The appearance of this legislation at this time is too driven by internal Liberal politics and needs: the need of the Prime Minister to whitewash various scandals from his record before he retires; the need to deal with his leadership rival within the Liberal Party; and the need to deal with the bank debts of the Liberal Party itself,&#8221; says Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Canadian Alliance Party.</p>
<p>While the three other opposition parties agree with the principles of the proposed law, and plan to support it, [then-Opposition Leader] *Harper argues that taxpayers should not be forced to further subsidize political parties.* &#8220;When the Liberal public relations rhetoric is set aside, the true nature of the bill is simply the replacement by the government of its addiction to large business and union donations with an addiction to taxpayer funding.&#8221;</p>
<p>The prime minister will also have to contend with opposition within his own party. Liberal Party President Stephen LeDrew refers to the idea of banning corporate donors as &#8220;dumb as a bag of hammers,&#8221; and some Liberal members of Parliament agree with this sentiment. But polls show strong public support for the corporate and union donation ban, and Chretien has announced that the vote on the bill will be a confidence vote, meaning that if it fails to pass, the government may fall. As a result, most Liberals are expected to vote in favor of it. &#8230;”</p>
<p>So, is PM Harper now out to annihilate other parties? Or stifle democracy? <br />Nah hah! He was always opposed to taxpayer funding of political parties, even when he was in opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: gwgm</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-1/#comment-2838</link>
		<dc:creator>gwgm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2838</guid>
		<description>Harper is beyond brilliant. What a move.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Love the Liberals crying about mean-spirited PMSH and his desire to kick the Liberals when they&#039;re down.&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t remember such comments coming from these people when that do-nothing Chretien didn&#039;t have another thought in his head aside from kicking the &#039;right&#039; in the galloolies at every opportunity.&lt;br&gt;Live by the sword, die by the sword.&lt;br&gt;I saw a report that the rudderless Libs are looking to Chretien for advice. You can say a lot of negative things about the bugger, but he&#039;s not a wimp. He played hardball, and he was good at it. The best advice he could give to the Libs now is to shut up, grow up, stop whining, put a knife in Dion, and don&#039;t pick a wuss the next time.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for the prospect of the Liberals getting into a coalition bed with the SEPARATISTS, that would be THE END of the party. Poof. Gone. Dead.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The LIBERALS IN BED WITH THE SEPARATISTS would drive a stake through their chests in Quebec and fortress Toronto. I wish they would do it, but there&#039;s no way in hell they will do anything but head for the lobby when the bells start to ring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harper is beyond brilliant. What a move.</p>
<p>Love the Liberals crying about mean-spirited PMSH and his desire to kick the Liberals when they&#39;re down.<br />I don&#39;t remember such comments coming from these people when that do-nothing Chretien didn&#39;t have another thought in his head aside from kicking the &#39;right&#39; in the galloolies at every opportunity.<br />Live by the sword, die by the sword.<br />I saw a report that the rudderless Libs are looking to Chretien for advice. You can say a lot of negative things about the bugger, but he&#39;s not a wimp. He played hardball, and he was good at it. The best advice he could give to the Libs now is to shut up, grow up, stop whining, put a knife in Dion, and don&#39;t pick a wuss the next time.</p>
<p>As for the prospect of the Liberals getting into a coalition bed with the SEPARATISTS, that would be THE END of the party. Poof. Gone. Dead.</p>
<p>The LIBERALS IN BED WITH THE SEPARATISTS would drive a stake through their chests in Quebec and fortress Toronto. I wish they would do it, but there&#39;s no way in hell they will do anything but head for the lobby when the bells start to ring.</p>
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		<title>By: BCVoiceOfReason</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-1/#comment-2834</link>
		<dc:creator>BCVoiceOfReason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2834</guid>
		<description>The best thing that cutting campaign welfare is that it makes the parties come up with some reason to support them.  The relatively low limits means that a lot of people have to support the concepts and their are is not enough influence provided by a $1000 donation to merit the assignment of a senate seat / judgeship or other tanglible benefits that have been bought in the past. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The great opportunity is that it forces the parties to stand for something that significant number of people feel strong enough to support with financial donations.   The cult of personality takes a back seat to policy.   The Liberals will have to change their focus to platform rather than who looks good facing off with Harper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best thing that cutting campaign welfare is that it makes the parties come up with some reason to support them.  The relatively low limits means that a lot of people have to support the concepts and their are is not enough influence provided by a $1000 donation to merit the assignment of a senate seat / judgeship or other tanglible benefits that have been bought in the past. </p>
<p>The great opportunity is that it forces the parties to stand for something that significant number of people feel strong enough to support with financial donations.   The cult of personality takes a back seat to policy.   The Liberals will have to change their focus to platform rather than who looks good facing off with Harper.</p>
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		<title>By: Frannk Premeau</title>
		<link>http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/flaherty-to-end-campaign-welfare/comment-page-1/#comment-2829</link>
		<dc:creator>Frannk Premeau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephentaylor.ca/?p=1273#comment-2829</guid>
		<description>I am listing to the news from Ottawa and am so depressed! I thought that the Harper government would be lacking in lots of domains but I thought that at the least they would have a reasonable policy on the economy. I watch the American markets and by extension the American plans for dealing with this crisis very carefully. I see them saying that immediate action is very important, I see the same in China, and even old staid Europe is getting off their butts and stimulating the economy. But here in Canada we are playing political games! Nothing serious.... we are in the worst crisis for 100 years and they are talking tonight about reducing their pay raise!??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am listing to the news from Ottawa and am so depressed! I thought that the Harper government would be lacking in lots of domains but I thought that at the least they would have a reasonable policy on the economy. I watch the American markets and by extension the American plans for dealing with this crisis very carefully. I see them saying that immediate action is very important, I see the same in China, and even old staid Europe is getting off their butts and stimulating the economy. But here in Canada we are playing political games! Nothing serious&#8230;. we are in the worst crisis for 100 years and they are talking tonight about reducing their pay raise!??</p>
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