Really funny to watch the Liberal campaign unfold with Dion's main plank becoming their Hidden Agenda.

Also funny how they trot into Toronto/ Millerville and go on a rant about banning hand guns and getting tough on crime, after another spate of shootings in that place.
Did anyone spot Mayor Miller standing with them? Every time a gun shot is fired in his city, Miller pops out of his hole like a Gopher and demands handguns be banned, then back he goes until he hear another bang.

Their Shift isn't working so it appears they're getting down and dirty, something Dion pledged he would not stoop to.
As an example there's an attack ad on Ritz and they're taking advantage of the Listeriosis deaths in an attack ad which was posted on "Blue like You" blog yesterday. Disgraceful

Yeah, GR-8 graphic, Stephen!

I think, East of Eden, that Helen's with us. She's gobsmacked by Dion's abandoning the ship...I mean his Green Shaf...I mean, his Green Shift.

Oh, I figured that. I was being, perhaps, a bit too tongue in cheek poking fun at the Liberals and their anti-Harper tirades. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

I love the graphic Stephen, it says it all about the Liberals. Glug, glug. And now the Liberals out west have gone rogue, coming up with their own homegrown platform. And we have Jack Layton going to pot while heaving his own candidates over the side for the same reason. The only one who isn't scary is Stephen Harper, thank goodness for that. Like Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

Stephen, clever title & graphic.

You know, the last time, when the Liberals could not find a real issue on which to fight Harper, they began this "hidden agenda" shtick. I remember thinking that, if it was hidden, how did they know about it? Really, if something is hidden well enough, nobody sees it. And, to make their slag even more fatuous, why did nobody in the Liberal party reveal what was hidden? You see, the Liberals are standing on thin air and they have no choice but to pull this tired old slag against Harper. Now, the shoe is on the other foot. Not only are we Canadians a lot more intelligent than the Liberals think, but the Liberals have just shown us one aspect of their hidden agenda - they showcased it and now are burying it. How obvious can they be?

Heh, they got propagandists constantly posting over and over again on the nanos polling site.
I help disprove their radical and ignorant claims fairly often. Heres what I had to say regarding the Mcguinty Liberal's claims against the Harris/Eves PC governments.

http://nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/83/10944...

I've sent more of this out to get an even closer look at some of the numbers.
I know the PC budget papers prove to be true given how long they were in and how controversial some of their policies may of been, and with that in mind, you would think if they were lying people would of said something given the misguided anti-harris like disposition amongst some.

But the whole "structural deficit" crap came from the Liberals and not an out side source, though they say "erik Peters ->projected<- the next government would inherit a $5billion deficit" I have not heard it from the man himself. Besides, a deficit doesn't mean much when you've accomplished so much for the province and its not a continuing downward spiral and you've manage to offset the deficit with how much you've spend down the debt itself, thus lowering the amount of money paid out to debt interest.

Compare the numbers to what the PC's inherited from the Bob Rae NDP.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/budget/ontario...

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/budget/paccts/...

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/budget/ontario...

Follow the first link for more information in my nanos posts.

So Dion steals the "Green Shift" name from a business woman...(Liberals are such great defenders of women)...steals the name in order to make it their MAIN plank in this election...and then...and then he has the nerve to say that it was NEVER to be etc....I can't finish...It's beyond words....

Helen, I was actually poking fun at the Liberals and not at you, in case it appeared that way. I am with you all the way although, to be honest, vascillation is a way of life for the Liberals so, although I'm surprised that Dion would abandon his party's entire plank, I'm not surprised that he waffled. I have the sneaking suspicion that Ignatieff and Rae had had enough of the Dion and Turner Green Shaft show and stepped in to take the wheel before Dion and Turner sank the entire party.

Well, Helen, according to the intelligensia on Garth's site, Harper is a woman-hater. Come on, lady, get with the program. The Liberals have more than 30% women candidates and the Conservatives hate women so much that they have...lots of women candidates. We even have a woman GG. And, lots of the male Conservatives, who hate women, are married to...women. And, Harper, who is the head woman-hater is married to a...wait for it...don't get too anxious...woman. And, get this, she's smart, strong, talented, pretty, skilled, educated and...she is married to the head woman-hater. Wow, could this Harper-is-a-woman-hater be a Liberal fabrication?

I'm glad they're dropping it. As long as they promoted a costly environmental plan that only focuses on the least important environmental issue (and in a highly regionalized way), I simply could not even consider voting for them. If they agree to drop it, then maybe I'll listen to their other policies.

On another thread here bob asked: "Dion bails and the [CBC] pundits are all Ritz all the time?"

This was my answer--which also addresses what Jonathan and What the Heck have observed ...

Groan. Gee I'm glad I was out having a beer with my daughter and her boyfriend and not watching Newman's BRAWWWWDCAST. I'd probably have thrown something at the TV.

From now on, I will never again consider this panel as "pundits." They're partisan sell-outs, out to cover and save their own butts. Actually, this panel has always been weak; I can't think of one who isn't left-of-centre. Calling them "pundits" is a conceit which stretches credulity. For crying out loud, Susan Delacourt's brother was the Director of Communication for Liberal big-wig Joe Volpe, so I'm sure she's objective...right?

Both Andrew Coyne and Chantal Hebert on the National last night said that what Agriculture Minister Ritz said IN A CONFERENCE CALL (which was leaked--by whom?), NOT A PUBLIC MEETING was not a firing offence, an assessment with which I totally agree. He has apologized and that should be that.

The fact that the majority of our MSM has become a vociferous attack dog on behalf of one political party--the Liberals--is an appalling state of affairs. They are acting as the media behave in totalitarian regimes. Isn't Canada a democracy? Or, more to the point, how do these partisan attacks on the CPC BY THE MEDIA encourage or advance Canadas' democracy?

There need to be laws to limit the interference of media outlets in the democratic process, because what is happening in this election is a media CPC pile-on which is despicable and unconscionable. It's not as though the other parties don't have a whole lot of gaffes going on--case in point, Dion throwing the Green Shift under the bus. But the Canadian media isn't reporting them or is mentioning them only once and then moving on.

Agriculture Minister Ritz's (leaked) comments for which he has sincerely apologized are not in the same league as Dion's dump of his party's Green Shift. For three days, the MSM has highlighted the Ritz "scandal." When is the MSM going to analyse and minutely dissect Dion's flip-flop?

batb,

While I agree with much of what you say, I have to caution the increasing use of "LAWS" to solve partisan contributions, no matter how nefarious. If Jason C's message board said we need to limit the contributions of partisan Conservatives we'd be up in arms.

The best way to get rid of this problem is to do exactly what Stephen, SDA and other Canadian bloggers are doing; expose the bias and be a trusted news source. I don't believe what much of the CBC has to say because of the exposure that these blogs have provided.

Please say no to more laws,

To the "virgin" blogger, "WHAT THE HECK VOTE BEC", watching CBC's Canada AM is akin to having root canal. They're the ultimate example of bias 101, displaying, for wont of a better word, TWITISM. Haven't watched them for some time and do not intend to, having filed them in the same category as the American show called "The View".

I have to say, we're looking so foolish on the world stage right now. Dion is now promising to crack down on crime. This is normally one of our platforms. Layton and the Marijuana party are going at it. The media is more concerned with what is not really a gaffe instead of the Liberals' flip-flop on the Green Shift. What a farce. The only one who is steady on course is our guy - Harper.

The Liberals are all over Harper for "breaking the law" re: the timing of this election. They are all over Flaherty for his flip-flop on income trusts (I actually have to agree - he did break an election promise and it did hurt some seniors) but the Liberals never mention Chretien's blatant breaking of his GST-scrapping promise. The Liberals accuse Harper of lying when he says that Dion would raise the GST and they point to Dion saying that he would not so do. Yet, he did so say in a prevous statement and...given his major flip-flop, who is to say that he won't flip-flop on his promise to not raise the GST? That party is dangerous. Trying to nail down that party's platform is like trying to nail Jell-o to a wall.

On Garth's blog, posters keep asking where is the platform and he keeps promising that it will arrive. This indicates two things to me: the Liberals are writing their platform according to the polls and Harper's successes and, secondly, it indicates that Garth is way out of the loop. Sure as shooting, if Garth knew anything, it would be in his blog - either directly stated or by innuendo.

And, why is Elizabeth May suddenly so silent? Have she and Dion made yet another deal behind closed doors? Has she agreed to tone down in order to allow Ignatieff and Rae come closer to the forefront? Did Ignatieff and Rae have a chat with her? Something doesn't add up. It is not like her to be so quiet. Something fishy is happening here and, to be honest, where the Liberals are concerned, I am not surprised.

As far as I am concerned, Harper is the only choice - he is decisive and he is highly intelligent.

What a lovely sight to behold, Dion flanked by Rae and Iggy and other also rans at photo-ops, out to save Canada from sure destruction, concentrating on gotcha politics and promising billions in programs sure to put us in deficit if not bankruptcy. Do they really agree with Elizabeth May, Goddess of Green, that we are stupid?

And let us never forget that Trudeau introduced deficit financing to Canada and left a huge deficit which Brian Mulroney began slaying long before Paul Martin became finance minister. And let us never forget that Brian Mulroney (I didn't really like the guy but he ran a fairly good government) began reducing the deficit without decimating our health care system which is now in shambles, thanks to Paul Martin's cuts.

The Liberal party reminds me of the Keystone Cops. Or Abbot and Costello. Or Laurel and Hardy. They are completely disorganized, fractured, ditzy. Imagine how we look on the world stage with the likes of Dion, May, and Layton? The shame of it all.

i am a "virgin" to blogs but a political junkie. I have read all of the comments made today and love this venue so please tolerate me for a while. My question is why are the CTV commentators (SIC Can you spell check on this?) so CBCish all of a sudden. I happened to be up at 4 AM Mountain yesterday and watched Canada AM. I actually e-mailed them finally because I thought that I was crazy. It was sooooo opinionated I was flabbergasted. Are they also becoming part of the political control like the US media? I feel so alone when my only 2 media outlets are so opinionated. p.s spell check worked!! Thanks for letting me in.

Interesting that Dion's abandonment of the Green Shift coincided with the appearances of Rae and Ignatieff ... who I suspect the both of them would not want to appear on the same stage with Dion and have to defend the infamous Carbon Tax.

So what we have now is no more Green Shift and sharing leadership of the Liberal party. A leadership shared is a leadership lost.

Agree, jonathan, the Liberals should not be allowed to put away Dion's main plank, the Green Shift carbon tax.
As for the media, they'll be glad to ignore it because it will be helpful to their Liberals who they're fighting to get back in power. Harper and all Conservative candidates however can continue to talk about it. If Dion , Iggy and Rae et al want to hide it, we can say unequivocally they have a HIDDEN AGENDA.

Is he going to rename his dog, too?

So let me get this...$15 billion in new taxes and a reworking of our economy....ISN"T a major policy for the Libs?

If that's considered minor, I'm afraid to see what they have up their sleeve which they consider major?!!

The Liberals should NOT be allowed to just push the Green Shaft onto the backburner. They will try and that's where the MSM has to step in. If the MSM wants to be seen to be objective, they must raise the Green Shaft as an issue EACH AND EVERY DAY! They cannot dog Harper with the "hidden agenda" label and then when the Liberals are attempting to change the channel on the centrepiece of their own platform, do as Dion has done today and eliminate it from their talking points.

Someone today in the MSM - Craig Oliver I beleive - observed that Dion mentioned the Green Shaft 14 times on the opening day of the campaign but it now attempting to shift focus. We expect the losing Liberals to do that. That's politics. But if the MSM too eliminates it from the election lexicon, then they will have shown they roo are complicit in seeing this tax implemented.

"...Liberals and Canadians will lose confidence in the man during an election which is also defined by leadership..."

What? That is just silly. Their campaign is gaining confidence as the CPC make another apology for their team. Their challenge the Grits face is to manage the team - and they may well fail at that. Their other challenge is to elaborate the whole platform and place their environmental program within the whole - explaining if they can how "it’s not our whole strategy.” Could fail at that, too. But suggesting that the Girts actually having a platform is somehow a fault is just weird.

You would never know the Conservatives are doing anything right, or the Liberals doing anything wrong, to judge from the CBC website. All of their articles about the campaign are either about some Tory "scandal" or about how the Liberals are promising something wonderful to every group imaginable. Does the CBC have any credibility anymore?

Does the CBC have any credibility anymore?

Did they ever?

John G, Craig Oliver has reported it on his blog, though I can't find it anywhere else on the CTV site. He says it was Robert Fife who questioned Dion about the Green Shift when he noticed that it hadn't been mentioned for two days running. Apparently one single reporter even thought to ask Dion why he suddenly wasn't talking about it.

But yeah, I guess I should give the Star some grudging credit. At least they put it in the headline. The Globe's headline on the same event? Dion promises farmers $1.2 billion package

I guess it's just no fun reporting on a major Liberal policy reversal when a minister's aid somewhere asks native protesters not to show up drunk again. Now that's a story with legs.

This makes no sence to jump shift right now. The promised tax cuts are related to the shift. The doubling of childcare for less fortunate families is because of the shift. The shift was/is the central money grabber for alot of the social program spending being announced. Now where will the money come from? The 2009 Farmers almanac is warning of a mini ice age. We need a carbon tax to prevent it. Now is not the time to jump shift.

He's going to abandon it, after proudly pushing it for six months and paying a fine for stealing the copyrighted name? He boasted it would be great for his favourite shtick, the environment, it would be revenue neutral, we'd get all the money back, yadda, yadda. Now it's going in hiding? Well, pardonner moi, that would be a HIDDEN AGENDA, those who start to pay attention later in the campaign wouldn't be aware of it. Beautiful cop out. Wonder if he's consulting with his crack economist, John MacCallum on any of his big spending announcements? He better not be listening to Bob Rae, given his record of bankrupting Ontario as Dipper Premier!

Yes the Green Shift is now a hidden adgenda if the LPC should make it to power, and I believe one could bet the farm on it being pulled out and dusted off ...though in some morphed form to pay for a large portion of their election promises etc.
These people are dangerous as a loaded truck out of control in a major populated area at noon.

It sounds like they are trying to HIDE their true AGENDA.

Hypocrites!

"Dion is the Les Nesman of politics" - too funny!

OK, if he abandons the green shaft, how in the heck is he gonna pay for all those billion$$ of promises?? I absolutely cannot wait for the debate.

Don't forget - Elizabeth May is the front person for the Liberals in the debate. That is, there will be a debate if anybody else can get a word in edgewise.

See, you all have to remember that these are "Liberals"... their definitions of the words 'heart' and 'central' anything are never all that clear seeing as they like to bend the truth and facts to their own ideological perspectives.

So can we really take anything they say seriously? I long suspected that even if they were to get elected there is no way they would be able to implement such a ridiculous set of policies let alone be trusted to.

Their sole purpose is to be a distraction and to try to take the shine off the Conservatives at all cost to keep them from a majority. Because they fear how good of a job the tories will do. Look how much they've managed to do with a minority for goodness-sake.

If they gave a damn about voters or even the good of democracy and the diversity of Canadians in general, they would accept defeat and allow new parties to form in their place of opposition.
Then and only then will we see politics become more civil and constructive in both the House and Senate.

Green Shift is now a hidden agenda. If by chance the eastern electorate vote these clowns in they can implement this tax grab and then say,"We told you we would do it, we just decided to wait until after we were elected to implement it."

What a joke.

Here's what the Toronto Star had to say about it:

The Conservative war room was making hay of Dion’s slight change in approach, calling it a "backpedal," which is designed to change the channel from Conservative Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz’s inappropriate comments about the people who died from the listeriosis tainted meat outbreak that has left 17 dead. (Italics my own)

I'm flabbergasted. I really am. Even from the Toronto Star, I never in a million years thought I'd see such blatant editorial torque in a news story. "Slight change in direction"??? Oh, and it's just designed to take the heat off Ritz, because of course the Conservatives would never comment on a Dion flip-flop of this magnitude otherwise. Do the Star editors have no shame?

Raging Ranter, the Star is the only MSM outlet that has even reported this...ahem...slight change in approach. G&M, CTV, CBC, Nat. Post...not one of them have a story about it.

Un freaking believable.

Good question Bob, I think we all know the answer to it though....., I would think however the PC war room is reving up right about now, and I am thinking it will not be long before we see a new ad. on the telly....argee

If it's not that important than why do all his TV adds feature the Green Shift?

When Harper started speculating on calling an election I thought 'w00t! Now Dion has to run on the Green Shift!'
I figured after the summer, that the Liberals would abandon this turkey of a scheme. Harper forced Dion to try and feed us that turkey for Thanksgiving... and is knocking the stuffing out of the Libs.

Now Dion is the Les Nesman of politics and is throwing the turkey out of the helicopter.

Oh man, I remember that episode. I never laughed so hard in my life. It's too bad that VCRs weren't around when WKRP was on the air.

Now the question is: will there be as much media uproar and coverage on this monumental mother of all flip-flops as there was regarding the comments by Ritz and Cannon's assistant?

Nobody should be suprised Dion is giving the Green Shift, the shaft. I'ts the most confusing and non-sensical policy to come down the pipe in a good long time. And I see the Conservatives are steadily climbing in the polls as Canadians start to realize Dion and Liberals are an empty vessel. Jumpin' Jack Layton must be having wet dreams over the collapse of the Liberals at the polls. Here in Hamilton I'm noticing that there are way more conservative signs (Terry Anderson) on the lawns than NDP and Liberal signs. Thank goodness Hamiltonian's have finally come to their senses after having all NDP members who talk a good game but do little for us residents or our faultering local economy. Keep up the good work Stephen, you have the most popular blog on the Internet. Preston Manning must be very proud of your accomplishments.

Stephane Dion is not a leader.

I think THIS quote is even more damaging:

Stephane Dion: "It's a good plan, it's the best that has been proposed to Canadians. It's the basement on which we build a good plan."

So then is it, or is it not, the foundation of his campaign platform? I'm confused...

Not the foundation CC, the basement...The Green thingy is being stored in the attic says Dijon...Still confused? Me too...But it's a nice confusion that clearly point to a CPC majority now. Can't wait for Oct 14 th ...Oh wait, the debates will be entertaining too.

I already have an image in my head when I will carve the turkey at thanksgiving. I think I'll put a pair of glasses and a backpack on it for a laugh.

Game over!...

"This policy, to put a price on pollution and to decrease the taxes on what we need is not the overall strategy, but it is the part of the overall strategy that will make sense to all the other ones." - Stephane Dion

(said at approx. 13:40 into video posted on Garth turner's homepage)

so does that make the Green Shift a "hidden agenda" or is that only a Conservative trait?

There is no Conservative "hidden agenda". It's the so called "Liberals" who have been infiltrated by the corporate self interests. That similarly plagues america only slightly different tactics and an approach using the well established "Liberal" guise to make themselves the "answer against the Right" up here, when in reality they are nearly one in the same in their tactics to mislead the masses to serve their own plans for a one world corporately(the bad type) run government.

I may sound like a "conspiracy" blubberer but their are far more on the far left in this county who have tricked by the "Liberals" into thinking it is the Conservatives and Harper in particular who has a "hidden agenda" but its all a facade. It should of been obvious to everyone giving their approach to everything.

If Dion was elected he'd be so easily coaxed into handing up big chunks of our sovereignty to the wrong kinds of people and not be able to negotiate his way out of those situations as well as Harper or Obama clearly can.

You have to be a uniter and know when and how to compromise in ways that benefit all parties and people.
The federal "Liberals" have clearly shown time and time again that they are incapable of that.
And have lost any concept of been able to come to a balanced agreement on virtually anything.

You have to be able to work toward a goal of raising everyones quality of life and just that of the special interest or even the voters who got you in.

In both Harper and Obama you have a more moderate perspective of how to go about things of this sort.

People should realize that anything can be accomplished and get done faster if we all learn to work together for a common good. This isn't no day dream. People do this all the time, only the MSM outlets (up here and down there) like to overly focus on all the things that have shock or entertainment value without reflecting enough on substance or context.

"hidden agendas" aren't limited to only one party but all. They like to work both sides to create division so they can later sweep in and conquer through the chaos. The key is, to remember that these corporate and special interest 'plants' or supporters are still human and can be convinced to work for all interests and not just their own or that of their "shadowy" backers.

You can also de-brainwash people out of their stubborn ideologies no matter WHAT it is they have come to believe. Nothing is impossible, the fact that civilizations have come so far should be a testament to that.
We will also progress a lot further and faster so long as those so called "shadowy interests" learn to stay the hell out of the way and not try to assert their control over the world.

There is no reason for their to be a singular world power since that would just begin to quell both the worlds diversity and its greatest ideas. It wouldn't be impossible to suggest a eventual balance from a 'utopia consisting of multiple utopias' style of rule that supports multiple/sustainable/sensible perspectives, that different enough from one another that they offer the right balance of freedom of choice and the ability to continually expand both ideas and styles of living into more.

I don't suspect such a thing to ever take place in the near future but its a prospect that we could all eventually consider as civilization progresses.

This makes more sense then taking the anti-globalization approach... since globalization doesn't have to be a bad thing so long as the right people are 'behind the wheel' so to speak.

If people would just learn to relax and reflect more on issues while continually taking all the available facts they can achieve a more moderate stance on such things and improve they're out look in life and eventually that of those around them. No one source has all the answers to everything so broaden your knowledge and try to remain as moderate and as balanced as possible so as to not too strongly favor one side or another, or get stuck on the fence with no clear understanding of what to do.

Don't let overly simplified categorizations or cliches or the like determine who you are or your stance.

Follow a more moderate and holistic view of everything and your potential to make the right choices will naturally begin to expand. We're all humans and design to adapt... it'd be a good idea if people would start making use of that line of thought rather then remain stuck in their own way and potentially risk succumbing to an entrenched dooms-day/bunker mentality. Plenty of groups are in waiting to take advantage of that.

so in other words... smarten up, please.

~a currently bearded and semi-anti-social, Taylor Cutforth

Compare that to comments like these

"I am sorry, I would never look for a Conservative majority. Mr. Harper would change Canada to some sort of dicatorship. He is a nasty, vulger, controlling person who we cannot trust."

http://nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/85/11264...

"if you knew what principle was then maybe you would understand why Harper has none at all. He is simply dedicated to being in charge and being the Hitler clone he feels he needs to be."

http://nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/85/11225...

Though there are always gonna be some who are ignorant and immature coming from all sides, I suspect some of these guys are being paid or put up to doing this.

Check out those conversations at that site and you'll have a clear understanding of what I mean.

Radical to the death style of "Liberal" support hounds. Void of any rational or sensibility even long after they've been thoroughly proven wrong. From that point they start resorting to personal insults.

Similar of what you can also see coming from the extreme Right and extreme Left down south.

It's all just to create more division. Some of which is simply by the misguided but there is a growing consensus that some of it is also on purpose or being sponsored. so... yeah... Conservative "hidden agenda"? I think not.

The "shadowy" vested and special interests people go on about are gonna play all sides.
The key is to not let them influence how or what you think and people to begin to rely more on the solid facts rather then opinions from even their friends or family.

But regardless I still know for a FACT that the conservatives are still the most resistant party to such "shadowy" groups even when it comes to the copyright legislation. The Conservatives are genuinely interested in contributing to the betterment of both the country and the world. And the more they know the truth and become even more informed on how to go about dealing with tough situations the stronger the protection they will have against the corrupt lobbyist and other misguided individuals.

blah blah blah... I got a headache. Piece the rest together yourselves. sorry if I'm coming off a little strong with any of this, but whatever.

That's some political integrity . . . yesterday Canadians had to act with moral clarity to save the world from global warming pollution so we could have a richer, fairer greener Canada.

Today, not so much.

What piece of his integrity will he abandon tomorrow ?

What integrity?

The end is nigh...